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Post by nychic on Mar 7, 2011 18:26:48 GMT -5
But ya know what, this is fiction folks. Let's not forget that, it's a television show and we're really all up in arms about that? Hmm, okay. Fuck yeah! I second that motion! lmaooo
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Post by firstwife on Mar 7, 2011 18:55:26 GMT -5
Whether he cares for her or not, he IS a grown man and his actions are against the law. Yes, CL has some responsibility in this, but that doesn't excuse his actions. Their relationship violates not only the basic trust between a teacher and a student, but by engaging in sexual relations, also violates one of the basic tenants of the LDS religion.
I think the whole purpose of this story line was to drive home just how warped Bill's relationship with a 16 year old Margene really is.
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Post by calimomof4 on Mar 7, 2011 20:28:21 GMT -5
I'm new to this board. If I suggest something that has already come up in previous conversation, forgive me.
I suspect that Mr. Ivy is the child of a polygamist family. He has had a deep interest in CL and her upbringing when they first started. If he was the moral, upstanding LDS that he is being portrayed as, he would not have attended a social gathering at the Hendrickson home. I felt his statement to Nicki "Let me explain..." was a loaded statement. I half expect him to announce his belief in the principle before this is all over.
Still, I would have kicked his sorry butt if she was my daughter. GROSS!
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Post by albertaleon on Mar 7, 2011 22:44:26 GMT -5
Greg Ivy may be part of a Polygamy family - when he was showing CL the pictures of his nieces & nephews on his phone - the niece looked like she had a Compound Hair Style.
Greg Ivy, in my opinion, was wrong in the way he behaved when Nicki came to his apartment. I would think any 37 year old man having sex with a 15 year old would be prepared to take several hits from the girl's mother & would make no attempts to restrain the mother. Greg Ivy should have been very apologetic however he wasn't. It seems as though Greg Ivy cares mostly about getting turned in.
Margene said "what the first time with a student" when CL said that it was Greg Ivy's first time having sex. I have a hard time believing that a man based on religious convictions would remain a virgin saving sex for marriage to throw out his faith & start having sex with a 15 year old girl. If Greg Ivy is so pure & a person of deep faith - I think he would have wanted to continue to save himself for his wife & wait to marry CL before sex.
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Post by withay on Mar 7, 2011 22:59:51 GMT -5
It's telling that the posters who thought that Mr. Ivey was being predatory with CL are the same ones who saw his behavior with Nicki as being over the top and abusive. The posters who are not seeing his behavior as predatory seem to see his actions with Nicki as him just protecting himself. I have to admit that I am having a difficult time seeing Mr. Ivey's actions as predatory also. Improper and a really, really bad idea, yes. But not predatory. And I say this as a retired CPS worker. Maybe it's because I know it's not a real child/adult situation because I was never conflicted in my job? Just my take on the situation.
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Post by BigLoveRocks! on Mar 7, 2011 23:24:14 GMT -5
But ya know what, this is fiction folks. Let's not forget that, it's a television show and we're really all up in arms about that? Hmm, okay. Fuck yeah! I second that motion! lmaooo [red]I'd like to take a minute to point out this board was created to discuss the show and for everyone to discuss their own personal points of view. Usually the tone of this board is pretty respectful of others, even if we don't always agree. The posts quoted above are not... That being said... I would like to ask you two to please tone it down a bit. We all are aware this is a fictional show with fictional characters... But we like to discuss it. I hope you two will continue to post here and enjoy yourselves and "discuss" with us. But the above commentary isn't necessary. [/red]
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Post by rissmeek on Mar 8, 2011 0:17:09 GMT -5
I would think any 37 year old man having sex with a 15 year old would be prepared to take several hits from the girl's mother & would make no attempts to restrain the mother........It seems as though Greg Ivy cares mostly about getting turned in. Why should anyone be prepared to be hit? And let's face it, Nikki wasn't there defending her daughter's honor, she was there because her daughter may take away what Nikki has always wanted. I didn't think Greg was worried about being turned in, he was worried about what would happen to CL. I was worried about her too, the way Nikki was manhandling her.
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Post by heartbeats on Mar 8, 2011 1:59:46 GMT -5
Whether he cares for her or not, he IS a grown man and his actions are against the law. Yes, CL has some responsibility in this, but that doesn't excuse his actions. Their relationship violates not only the basic trust between a teacher and a student, but by engaging in sexual relations, also violates one of the basic tenants of the LDS religion. I think the whole purpose of this story line was to drive home just how warped Bill's relationship with a 16 year old Margene really is. I wasn't excusing Mr. Ivy's actions at all, I was just simply pointing out the fact that other people seem to be glossing over the fact that CL does have a good deal of responsibility in this, as well. And I find that quite irritating. Honestly, I just don't see anything wrong or skeevy where Mr. Ivy is concerned, all I see is him making a potentially bad decision that could end his career and possibly land him some time in jail. But, that doesn't mean that he doesn't care about CL, we cannot just dismiss that whether what he's doing is wrong or right in any capacity. I guess, it's to each their own decision on that matter. You can argue the law with me all you want, but you're not going to change my mind on the fact that I don't find Mr. Ivy and CL to be all that horrible, is what I'm saying. Betheaz: Okay, here's the thing, maybe he should have apologized to Nicki for his actions. And, well, maybe he shouldn't have. My point is, that you were accusing him of violently man-handling Nicki, and I was telling you that's not how the scene came across to me. It's not Mr. Ivy who is pummeling Nicki's chest with his fists, he's not dragging her around by her hair, or throwing her around the room. He is merely restraining her, while she's lost her freaking mind for a minute and has decided to go postal on him a bit. I honestly think he's trying to keep her from hurting herself. Here's the thing though, Nicki is the one who snatch up CL and barraged into Mr. Ivy's home and started throw threats about bringing him up on statutory rape charges and telling him that he'll never see her again and he'd better leave town. I understand that she's very upset over this and that what Mr. Ivy and CL have done violates the basic tenants of the LDS faith, however, I still feel like if Nicki was that headstrong about this then she should have gone to the police department and filed a report against him and made sure that CL was never anywhere near him again, instead of bringing her to his house and telling him not to talk to her, and then basically threatening him. She was the one with the violent streak that night. Okay, so it's not kosher at all for a 37 year old man to be sleeping with a 15 year old girl. But ya know what you and a few other's seem to be doing? You seem to be putting ALL OF THIS on his shoulders and completely looking the other way regarding CL's responsibility in all of this because she is only 15 years old. You know what, that girl is old enough and sneaky enough to know just exactly what she's doing. Granted he should have turned her away and shut her down hard and he definitely shouldn't have slept with her, but ya know I'm not inclined to put all of the blame off on him and act like he's a "toad" or a "cad" or whatever name you decide to call him because you find his behavior to be so distasteful and disgusting. If he was being all of those things that you called him, then I'll wager to say that Nicki was being a self-righteous bitch. There, I said it. And I'm not taking it back and I don't mean to offend either. Just pointing out. As far as this goes, I don't necessarily think that he was being aggressive with Nicki, so much as he was trying to get her attention and trying to get her to listen to him. But, ya know what, you're going to think whatever and I'm just going to let it go because I'm sick to death of arguing. As I said before, this is a television show after all and we all have our own view points. I can see that mine is the minority and so I'm gonna bow out gracefully, sorry for the one curse word I used. It was used to describe Nicki, not at anyone on this board.
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Post by writerwannabe on Mar 8, 2011 10:53:36 GMT -5
Agree, rissmeek. Nikki doesn't know all the reasons why she is mad, but she is really mad. She's mad because she can no longer play at being CL's mother. She's mad and embarrassed because she thought the teacher had a crush on her. She's mad because she hates JJ and having CL have a relationship with an older man feels like JJ has won. She's mad because Bill is unpredictable and might agree that CL can marry Mr. I in four months when she turns 16. She's mad because if CL marries there is no reason for her and Bill to remained legally married and Bill can divorce her, remarry Barb, and give Barb spousal immunity from testifying in his trial.
Nikki lashed out with all her anger and in the end all she could say was "Don't do this to ME." Nothing about her daughter.
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Post by Jules on Mar 8, 2011 11:10:23 GMT -5
.........Bill can divorce her, remarry Barb, and give Barb spousal immunity from testifying in his trial. writerwannabe: RE: Nikki.... I agree 100% with this statement. I predict that Nikki will allow CL to marry Mr. Ivey (argh to that thought) and then Bill will remarry Barb in the final episode. That will be the "valentine" that the producers have hinted will happen for the audience in the final episode.
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Post by firstwife on Mar 8, 2011 12:04:35 GMT -5
I think Nicki lashed out because she really is confused. Just a few short months ago, she rescued CL from a forced marriage to an older man. Now, CL runs right back in to the arms of one. She has to be having flashbacks to her own early marriage, too.
Add in that CL is having sex with Greg. In Nicki's mind, sex is for procreation only. Premarital sex is absolutely forbidden and sinful. She sees this as the ultimate betrayal of everything she believes in.
But mostly, this is a 37 year old having sex with her daughter. Speaking purely as a mother here, you would have to pull me off the jerks cold, dead body before I would stop wailing on him.
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Post by bigluvjunkie on Mar 8, 2011 12:57:26 GMT -5
Agree, rissmeek. Nikki doesn't know all the reasons why she is mad, but she is really mad. She's mad because she can no longer play at being CL's mother. She's mad and embarrassed because she thought the teacher had a crush on her. She's mad because she hates JJ and having CL have a relationship with an older man feels like JJ has won. She's mad because Bill is unpredictable and might agree that CL can marry Mr. I in four months when she turns 16. She's mad because if CL marries there is no reason for her and Bill to remained legally married and Bill can divorce her, remarry Barb, and give Barb spousal immunity from testifying in his trial. Nikki lashed out with all her anger and in the end all she could say was "Don't do this to ME." Nothing about her daughter. Good insight there. Nicki's emotions are all over the place. I'm convinced that Nicki is really terribly unhappy and this is why she's such a train wreck right now. Even though she's trying to be Mrs. Public Wife she couldn't restrain happiness over the prospect of Bill resigning from the Senate. I expect Nicki to have a major shift in perspective before all this is over, and it may well start with the aftermath of this traumatic episode with Alby. Like Bill, humility is not her strong suit. But that's what she desperately needs right now. I can't help but feel all that false pride is really a mask for an unhappy woman. As for CL and Ivy....I don't think Ivy is evil, but the truth is he'll be lucky if he escapes grave consequences for his actions, and that is how it should be. I suppose Bill might agree to let CL marry him if CL approaches Bill the right way (gross!), and yes maybe Ivy might be good to CL. But I get the feeling there is still more to be revealed regarding this teacher's character and motivations. And who can say for sure how Bill will react when he hears of it...
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Post by Jules on Mar 8, 2011 13:03:22 GMT -5
I have to just add that Nikki makes me sick, sick, sick. She should be running to the authorities about Mr. Ivey. A good MOther wouldn't care what the consequences are for the Family. Give me a break! Mr. Ivey had sex with her 15 year old daughter. I would be at the police station with my daughter so fast that Mr. Ivey's head would be "spinning!"
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Post by cherylr6 on Mar 8, 2011 13:20:19 GMT -5
I have to just add that Nikki makes me sick, sick, sick. She should be running to the authorities about Mr. Ivey. A good MOther wouldn't care what the consequences are for the Family. Give me a break! Mr. Ivey had sex with her 15 year old daughter. I would be at the police station with my daughter so fast that Mr. Ivey's head would be "spinning!" If the consequences are that CL will end up in child protective services (a pretty sure bet); if the consequences are her other children might be removed also (certainly possible), yeah, I think she needs to step back and consider her options for a second. Whatever anyone thinks of Nicki, she only wanted CL to have a happy succsessful life. If she was hoping to live vicariously through her daughter's happiness? Guess what, that happens a lot. This is what burns me about Ivy. Nicki asked him to help her daughter, she confided the problems that CL was having and her own dreams that her daughter could be somethng special. She trusted him. That isn't a Nicki thing to do, but she did it for CL's sake. Ivy should know that Nicki is compound. Calling the authorities really wouldn't be an option. That's the real reason that Cara Lynn knew that her mother was bluffing and why she played the child protective services card. But Nicki's being compound and the fact that Alby apparently loves her too much to kill her, means that he just might love her enough to shoot Ivy.
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Post by Jules on Mar 8, 2011 13:23:54 GMT -5
@ cherylr6: :)Nikki should have gone to the authorities because it is the "right" thing to do. She surely would lose her children if it was found out that she had this information and didn't do anything about it. Also, she is such a hypocrite. She is trying to "save" Compound women with "Safety net," but she stands back and doesn't go to the authorities. There could be other girls out there that Mr. Ivey is violating. Sorry, but for me, no matter the consequences, she should have him turned in, pronto!
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