Cara Lynn's Teacher

[BigLoveRocks!]

I think Ben is right... I think Caralynn is doing this because she can't deal with her father's death.

[duets]

Mar 7, 2011 3:40:25 GMT -5 BigLoveRocks! said:

I think Ben is right... I think Caralynn is doing this because she can't deal with her father's death.

Great point. Since life happens fast @ the Henrickson household, CL hasn't really bonded w/anyone closely or personally; but Margene & Ben to some degree. She still reserves being too open, even when Margene attempts to ask questions, & after tonight's epi, I'm sure she will not be sharing any more w/Margene. I believe that CL feels that trust is something she doesn't have w/anyone except for the teacher.

[writerwannabe]

I didn't see any violent man-handling on the part of Mr. I. Nikki attacked him and he passively defended himself until he could get control of her. I think the look of CL's face was just shock and horror that her mother could go so wildly out of control. Only Nikki would drag her daughter to the offending person's house and start a physical fight. When you think about it, a rational person would have taken steps to report him to the police, reported him to the school system, gotten counseling for her daughter.....but this is our Nikki, and Nikki makes big scenes, makes the situation worse.

"Please don't do this to me" means that what has happened is all about Nikki. She has completely failed to protect CL or rescue her from predation. Nikki's self image is destroyed, and she is furious. It's stopped being about CL and started being about Nikki.

Although, Betheaz, I don't discount your theory of Nikki's suffering from PTSD.

[Dee]

Isn't Mr. Ivy older than Nicki? She was what? maybe 15 or so when she gave birth to CL, so that would make her about 30. Mr. Ivy is 37. Such a weird situation.

Like others, though, I don't get a skeevy feeling about Mr. Ivy. I think he thinks he loves CL. And CL thinks he loves her...that was the explanation she gave Ben.

Waaay back in 1916, my grandfather who was a Mormon, married my grandmother who was not. He was 28, she was 14. In those days, nobody thought my grandfather was a dirty old man. They thought my grandmother had found a good husband who could provide for her. Customs change, and you gotta wonder which is right.

It goes without saying that I don't promote pedophiles, but God did make our bodies ready for procreation at a much earlier age than society approves of. IMO, it is society who has stunted the maturity of young people and some are actually ready for a committed relationship before they are legally allowed to enter into one. Just MHO.

[southernsong]

I've watched it a second time and I just really don't see Mr. Ivey being violent towards Nicki. He does restrain her, but I don't see him trying to hurt her. He was trying to protect Cara Lynn and himself from an obviously hysterical Nicki.

I'm really trying to be creeped out by the whole teacher thing, but I'm just not. Other things on this show have given me a creepy feeling, but not the teacher. I feel that he genuinely cares for Cara Lynn and has really been struggling with that fact. I feel that she is too young to get married as so much of her life has changed in the past year, but I don't see this as some predatory thing - and I know that the writers want me to. Then again, the writers want me to like Bill and I'm still cheering on Alby to go kill him...

[albertaleon]

When Nicki was told about Greg Ivy (the teacher) outside by Margene & CL - Nicki asks CL who else knows about this. CL tells Nicki just Ben - Nicki tells CL not to tell another soul because she doesn't want anyone to know how she (CL) has shamed herself.

I think at this point the wheels in Nicki's mind were already spinning with the knowledge "I used CL as a pawn to become legal wife & CL's actions may have ruined this for me."

Nicki violently takes CL & basically drags her back into the house as CL says to Nicki "you're hurting me." Margene seemed shocked how Nicki was dragging CL.

At Greg's house - Nicki tells him that he will leave town or she will report him to the police. CL calls Nicki's bluff & tells Greg "she (Nicki) is bluffing." CL reminds Nicki that she would never go to the police because Nicki wouldn't want the relationship between her daughter & teacher to become public. Nicki seems to be shocked that CL can see through her lies.

I was a little shocked that CL said nothing during the physical confrontation between her lover & mother. I would think any daughter would say "get your hands off my mom!" I don't think that the teacher was being violent towards Nicki but trying to subdue Nicki - as Nicki cries out "please don't do this to me" I really hear Nicki say "CL you are going to do as I want so I can get want I want - you aren't going to have any relationship that will jeopardize me being Bill's legal wife or anything else I want."

CL was the basis that Nicki was able to elbow her way into being legal wife. Nicki probably had more plans to use CL to get more things she (Nicki) wants for herself with no regard for the feelings of others.

I think CL sees through Nicki & isn't under the spell of Nicki's lies. After finding out about teacher, I think Nicki can see through CL - Nicki did say to CL "you smile & act so nice" which made me believe that Nicki can now see who her daughter really is. Most of all, I think Nicki sees CL's relationship with the teacher as a hazard to Nicki's plans of becoming first wife.

When Bill said at the table to all three wives that he would resign from Senate if it meant the criminal charges would go away - Nicki was pleased - Nicki was pleased because if Bill were to step down CL wouldn't be able to say to her "you won't turn Greg into the police because you wouldn't want this type of attention on Bill." Even at the table with her Sister Wives & Bill - Nicki was still only thinking about herself - I thought.

[bigluvjunkie]

Mar 7, 2011 12:40:52 GMT -5 southernsong said:

I'm really trying to be creeped out by the whole teacher thing, but I'm just not. Other things on this show have given me a creepy feeling, but not the teacher. I feel that he genuinely cares for Cara Lynn and has really been struggling with that fact. I feel that she is too young to get married as so much of her life has changed in the past year, but I don't see this as some predatory thing - and I know that the writers want me to.

Maybe if it was clearer that Ivy was sleeping with CL you would feel differently? I think once that line was crossed I could no longer see Ivy as an honest man.

The breach of the teacher/student relationship was already grossly unethical, but if there was sex then that constitutes statutory rape I should think.

[bigluvjunkie]

Mar 7, 2011 13:31:33 GMT -5 albertaleon said:

At Greg's house - Nicki tells him that he will leave town or she will report him to the police. CL calls Nicki's bluff & tells Greg "she (Nicki) is bluffing." CL reminds Nicki that she would never go to the police because Nicki wouldn't want the relationship between her daughter & teacher to become public. Nicki seems to be shocked that CL can see through her lies.

I was a little shocked that CL said nothing during the physical confrontation between her lover & mother. I would think any daughter would say "get your hands off my mom!" I don't think that the teacher was being violent towards Nicki but trying to subdue Nicki - as Nicki cries out "please don't do this to me" I really hear Nicki say "CL you are going to do as I want so I can get want I want - you aren't going to have any relationship that will jeopardize me being Bill's legal wife or anything else I want."

Honestly I thought that scene was grossly over the top and spoiled the episode somewhat. How many times do we have to see Nicki act out? Margie already confronted the teacher in front of CL and now Nicki drags CL to the dude's private residence?

I'm sure Nicki is disappointed CL is shaming her and making her look bad but I'm sure she's also genuinely shocked and stricken by these events.

CL and GI being together is gross and unethical. If Mr. Ivey really loves CL then he would treat her with more honor and respect than he has been.

[rissmeek]

Mar 7, 2011 12:40:52 GMT -5 southernsong said:

I've watched it a second time and I just really don't see Mr. Ivey being violent towards Nicki. He does restrain her, but I don't see him trying to hurt her. He was trying to protect Cara Lynn and himself from an obviously hysterical Nicki.

I'm really trying to be creeped out by the whole teacher thing, but I'm just not. Other things on this show have given me a creepy feeling, but not the teacher. I feel that he genuinely cares for Cara Lynn and has really been struggling with that fact. I feel that she is too young to get married as so much of her life has changed in the past year, but I don't see this as some predatory thing - and I know that the writers want me to. Then again, the writers want me to like Bill and I'm still cheering on Alby to go kill him...

I know I'm supposed to be creeped out too but I'm not either. I almost wonder if Greg is trying to rescue CL. I think he loves her but it may be more like, I'll do whatever I need to in order to get her out of this mess.

[duets]

BLJ, indeed it does. As we were watching the scene unfold, hubby-att, stated, "He (teacher, Ivey) is now the statutory rapist".

This has been a common theme from time to time, this ugly stuff just sort of crops up. Along with the TX raid during the BL season going on. A common reminder of life in the polygamy world, like it or not, it just happens. Ugh

[firstwife]

Mar 7, 2011 13:42:12 GMT -5 bigluvjunkie said:

Mar 7, 2011 12:40:52 GMT -5 southernsong said:

I'm really trying to be creeped out by the whole teacher thing, but I'm just not. Other things on this show have given me a creepy feeling, but not the teacher. I feel that he genuinely cares for Cara Lynn and has really been struggling with that fact. I feel that she is too young to get married as so much of her life has changed in the past year, but I don't see this as some predatory thing - and I know that the writers want me to.

Maybe if it was clearer that Ivy was sleeping with CL you would feel differently? I think once that line was crossed I could no longer see Ivy as an honest man.

The breach of the teacher/student relationship was already grossly unethical, but if there was sex then that constitutes statutory rape I should think.

Cara Lynn admits to Margie that they are sleeping together. She said it was his first time, too.

[southernsong]

Firstwife is right. It just really doesn't creep me out. I know it should, and believe me that plenty of other stuff during the series have bothered me, but this one just doesn't. I really feel like he genuinely cares about Cara Lynn. He was going to give her the $2,000 to go to that special math camp that summer, his first concern when Nicki was at his house was if Cara Lynn was ok, and when Nicki grabbed Cara Lynn to leave and was hurting her, Mr. Ivey restrained Nicki to protect Cara Lynn. When he said that he would leave town, he wanted to know what would happen to Cara Lynn and wanted to make sure she would be safe. He didn't want Cara Lynn's life ruined by this getting out.

Plus, Cara Lynn seems a lot more mature than 15 year old girls. Now, I'm not saying that she should run off and marry him, but I just am not as freaked out by this as I feel I should be.

[albertaleon]

If I heard on the news about a 37 year old teacher having sex with his 15 year old student - having his 15 year old student to his apartment for candle lit dinners of garlic bread, pizza, & salad - I would be grossed out!

However, for whatever reasons I just haven't been able to get invested into the CL character. I don't understand her purpose - at first I thought it was to show a certain side of Nicki - then I thought CL's purpose was to show a 15 year old girl having sex with a 37 year old man which would be similar to Margene - so, for example, if my thought process with Margene had been Margene's relationship with Bill is okay despite her age I would be forced to re-evaluate my thoughts on Margene's & Bill's relationship due to the sexual relationship CL is having with her teacher.

I do think we are supposed to be grossed out about CL having a sexual relationship with her teacher.

I also think that Greg Ivy should have been VERY APOLOGETIC, SINCERE, AND SORRY when Nicki went to his apartment with CL to confront him. Greg Ivy's primary concern seems to be if he is going to be turned in for having sex with CL - in the previews for next week CL is on the phone with Greg Ivy & is telling him not to worry about being turned in - when Nicki confronted Greg Ivy in his apartment CL told him that Nicki wouldn't turn him in which it seemed like to me made Greg Ivy more pompous towards Nicki than he would have been if CL wouldn't have reassured him that he would not be turned in for having sex with her.

I don't think Greg Ivy could really love CL. If he did, I think he would be encouraging her to become her own person & develop friendships - if Greg Ivy LOVED CL it would be better if he didn't have sex with her & made sure even if he used his own money CL went to the Math Camp that is $2,000. Greg Ivy would have to know that CL has a lot of issues - she comes from a compound, her father & really the only parents she knew where murdered -- having sex with CL can't be helpful to her emotionally.

If CL was a well adjusted 15 year old - I don't think Greg Ivy would be having sex with her. However, because of CL's emotional problems - CL is an easier target. At Greg Ivy's age he should KNOW BETTER - & if he did LOVE her he would support her & wait for her to grow up a little more - at least experience "normal" teenage life for a couple of years.

I think it's really strange that Greg Ivy would wait 37 years to make love to someone because he is faithful to God - only to start having sex with a 15 year old girl. If Greg Ivy was so devout - I think he would marry CL before having sex with her. I don't know if I can believe that Greg Ivy was really a virgin - a virgin by choice due to his strong religious convictions. It seems as though a person with such strong religious convictions who has waited so long to have sex - would wait a little bit longer to have sex so that he could get married to CL first.

I wouldn't want Greg Ivy teaching at any school - if he were a real person. I think Greg Ivy was wrong to have sex with CL - I think Greg Ivy would have been wrong to have sex with CL even if she was 21 but had been living on a compound for most of her life. CL being 15 makes it CRIMINAL of Greg Ivy to have sex with her.

I'm not really freaked out or grossed out - but it's because I just haven't become invested into the character of CL. I do think her purpose is to have a person on the show who can see through Nicki & is not able to be manipulated by Nicki - to show us a similar situation of Bill & Margene - & to show how Nicki uses anything to her advantage to get what she wants.

The only things I found shocking were: CL never cried out or yelled out for Greg Ivy to stop - or for her to yell out to both Greg & Nicki to stop being physical - Greg Ivy wasn't very apologetic to Nicki.

I hope CL does tell Bill how Nicki used her to manipulate him into the legal marriage with Nicki - I hope CL tells Bill the things she knows about her mother & the things she can see Nicki do that are invisible to others. CL's best bet may be going to Bill & telling him that she is in love with Greg Ivy & wants to marry him when she turns 16 - Margene was 16 was she married Bill.

[nychic]

Mar 7, 2011 8:04:47 GMT -5 betheaz said:

Mar 7, 2011 2:41:41 GMT -5 nychic said:

I agree aswell. If he was a creep that was attracted to little freshman girls in high school, I'm sure he could have acted on that with someone else. But it's cute that he was a 37 year old who lost his virginity to someone he loved. To me that screams "I'm not a perve, i'm just in love."
You get me? ;D And i think that is so special. Thirty-seven for god sakes! haha

He told CL is was his first time......but remember the look on his mother's face when he was helping CL take her coat off at the theater, he is no novice at this game.....

Also, this time CL got to see her teacher-boyfriend violently man-handling her mother is that struggle they had....CL had a shocked look on her face, I hope that was the reason......when Nicki whispered-cried out "please don't do this to me" I think Nicki was reliving some awful memory from her days wed to JJ (I have seen this 'separate from reality' kind of reaction in PTSD patients before).....yuck.

At the risk of sounding argumentative, i beg to differ. I think you might be over thinking things a little too much, betheaz. I feel that the look on his mother's face when he took the coats was in disapproval of him having an out-of-school relationship with his young student; not because she thought "uh oh, he's at it again!" The writers don't have enough story-line-time to have so much of a hidden agenda on Greg and CaraLynn's relationship. By this time, i think they would have made it clear that was just some child molester that's been around the block. If they said he was a virgin, than he was a virgin. Sorry.

If something on the contrary to my statement comes up in the 2 remaining episodes, i will gladly admit you were right. But, i doubt it.

And i'm sorry to say this, but you are way off track by thinking that Greg "violently manhandled" Nicki. He clearly restrained her arms, which is what a man should do if a woman is hitting him. He wasn't in the "wrong" there.

[heartbeats]

Mar 7, 2011 8:04:47 GMT -5 betheaz said:

Mar 7, 2011 2:41:41 GMT -5 nychic said:

Also, this time CL got to see her teacher-boyfriend violently man-handling her mother is that struggle they had....CL had a shocked look on her face, I hope that was the reason......when Nicki whispered-cried out "please don't do this to me" I think Nicki was reliving some awful memory from her days wed to JJ (I have seen this 'separate from reality' kind of reaction in PTSD patients before).....yuck.

Okay you know what, I mostly just lurk around these boards and read what everyone else has to say, while occasionally throwing in my own two cents but this time I just can't bite my tongue.

I think you're seriously grossly mistaken, by implying that Greg Ivey was violently man-handling Nicki. She was the one who went over to his house to confront him about his behavior where CL was concerned. She was also the one who was up in his face, screaming and yelling at him, and then she pretty much basically attacked him with her fists. She's the one who got physical with him in his own home.

Regardless of what his behavior has or hasn't been with CL up until this point, there was no reason for Nicki to put her hands on him or to even attempt to get into some sort of physical altercation with him. In this scene, he didn't get physical with her or violent at all, he just restrained her from doing so with him. He restrained her from attacking him.

It was a very stressful situation way that could have gotten a lot worse, but imho it seemed to me like he truly cared about what would happen to CL and he seemed sincere when he said that he would leave town. I don't think it was necessarily wrong for him to want to make sure that CL would be safe and okay, once he left. Nicki is the one who was throwing it around that she was going to bring him up on charges on statutory rape.

Honestly, the bulk of the people that I've seen are acting like Mr. Ivey is some sort of monster who prey's on innocent young girls, and I just don't see that. I don't mind the CL/Greg Ivey storyline at all, because I think that he could possibly be good for her. Would I like it better if CL were just a few more years older and he a couple years younger and they had met under different circumstances? Yes, I probably would.

But, at this point, the man just doesn't come across as skeevy to me as most people are trying to imply he is. And like I've stated before and I will do so again, I think that he really does care for CL and for what may or may not happen to her as far as her well-being goes. Not to mention the fact, that nobody really wants to look at the responsibility or the culpability for that matter, that CL has in this as well.

She is the one who went after him, she pursued him and in the end he succumbed to her. He probably should have been stronger and turned her away, shut her down at all costs. I can see how it might be perceived in such a way that maybe he took advantage of her vulnerability, but honestly with the type of behavior and the things that CL's been doing all season long I just don't know to what extent she can or can't be taken advantage of anymore, because she was portrayed as the ultimateut aggressor in getting this relationship of sorts off the ground and herself into his bed.

People just don't want to put any responsibility on her, because she is a 15 year old girl and Mr. Ivey is a grown man by all rights, should have known better. But it seems like to me, that these two work on a level that I'm willing to overlook the age difference and be okay with it. As wrong as that might make me, fine.

But ya know what, this is fiction folks. Let's not forget that, it's a television show and we're really all up in arms about that?

Hmm, okay.