|
Post by BigLoveRocks! on Mar 8, 2011 16:54:59 GMT -5
When my son is being bad (he is 8 years old) and I grab his arm to take him to his room for a time out he will almost always say "YOU'RE HURTING ME!" and then when I let go... He will fling himself to his bed as if I threw him on it... All being dramatic.
That is just what kids do. At least mine. LOL!
I have seen Caralynn display this behavior with the whole gun scene last season in D.C.
Acting like Nikki was going to shoot her or shoot up the place screaming "SHE'S GOT A GUN!" all being a drama queen.
So I don't really think it is a far stretch that Nikki was reprimanding her child and her child was being... Well... A CHILD!
I really don't think she was assaulting CL in any way or doing something any other mother wouldn't do in that situation.
|
|
|
Post by justvisiting on Mar 8, 2011 17:40:06 GMT -5
Duet wrote: "Uh, I don't think so. His Mother didn't show up to the show in Prairie style garb. If anything, I would think they are LDS, since the majority of residents who live in Utah are." Yes, I know that Utah is LDS and that his mom was not wearing pairie dress, however, he is interested in somebody he knows is 15 and from the compound. So, I would think that makes him a 37 year old predator or someone who is possibly familair with polygamous life through extended family.
Anyway, as somebody who is just dropping by, I have some constructive criticism. Please do not begin a reply post with "uh." It is disrespectful and not appreciated. You might as well write "duh."
Take care.
|
|
|
Post by Deb on Mar 8, 2011 18:09:45 GMT -5
I am rather shocked at the nerve of Mr. Ivey. He should have been on his knees begging Nicki to have mercy on him and promising to leave the state immediately. Doesn't he know he could be facing many years in prison?
I'm wondering if his family is well connected with the LDS church. Maybe they can step in and save Bill from prosecution if Cara Anne's family holds off on prosecuting him. Just a thought.
|
|
|
Post by rissmeek on Mar 8, 2011 18:20:23 GMT -5
I saw the scene a bit differently. Nicki was hurting Cara Lynn when she grabbed her outside of Margene's house. When they were leaving Greg's house, I thought that she was hurting Cara Lynn again. I thought that Greg was trying to stop her from hurting Cara Lynn. That was when Nicki turned and took out her anger and rage on Greg. I think that he restrained her in a way that was perfectly acceptable in those situations. I do not think he hurt her, but was trying to keep her from hurting him, Cara Lynn, or herself in her hysterical condition. And again, I know I should be bothered by their relationship, but I just can't seem to get creeped out by him. I really feel that he is a genuine guy who cares deeply for Cara Lynn. What they did wasn't exactly the most moral and legal thing, but, as you said earlier, Albertaleon, I do not see him as anything even remotely resembling a predator. And don't get me started on how frustrated I am with Margene. If she is going to dig her heals in on this whole statutory rape case, she can't turn around and yell at Greg and Cara Lynn. Then again, giving it more thought, I think that she is less concerned about Cara Lynn's well-being than she is about how it will make the family look if it gets out. Southern I think you are reading my mind.
|
|
|
Post by aliensummer on Mar 8, 2011 18:27:52 GMT -5
When my son is being bad (he is 8 years old) and I grab his arm to take him to his room for a time out he will almost always say "YOU'RE HURTING ME!" and then when I let go... He will fling himself to his bed as if I threw him on it... All being dramatic. That is just what kids do. At least mine. LOL! I have seen Caralynn display this behavior with the whole gun scene last season in D.C. Acting like Nikki was going to shoot her or shoot up the place screaming "SHE'S GOT A GUN!" all being a drama queen. So I don't really think it is a far stretch that Nikki was reprimanding her child and her child was being... Well... A CHILD! I really don't think she was assaulting CL in any way or doing something any other mother wouldn't do in that situation. I work with kids, and get the "YOU'RE HURTING ME" thing all the time. But, with that being said, I really don't think it's a stretch to think that Nicki probably really was hurting her daughter. Nicki has invested everything this past year into Cara Lynn. She's living through her daughter, making sure that everything she was never given the chance to enjoy, her daughter is given. She's fought tooth and nail for Cara Lynn, from custody battles with J.J., saving Cara Lynn from a marriage, getting her a private math tutor, and even convincing Barb to divorce Bill just so that Cara Lynn could have a Priesthood Holder. And all of this, just to find out that Cara Lynn plans on getting married at 16 anyway? This would be a kick in the face to Nicki. Everything she's worked towards for her daughter has backfired, and from Nicki's point of view, Cara Lynn is going towards everything that Nicki wanted to save her from. So personally, I don't think it would be much of a stretch to see Nicki grab a hold of Cara Lynn a little too hard, even if she didn't mean it. And maybe Cara Lynn deserved it, but she definitely doesn't see it that way, so it makes sense that she would tell her mom that she's hurting her, and possibly hope that she'd let up a little. And also, if I remember correctly, Margene also seemed concerned with the way that Nicki was pulling Cara Lynn earlier. So it's not like Ivey's concern is totally random.
|
|
|
Post by Jules on Mar 8, 2011 19:42:35 GMT -5
I have to just add that Nikki makes me sick, sick, sick. She should be running to the authorities about Mr. Ivey. A good MOther wouldn't care what the consequences are for the Family. Give me a break! Mr. Ivey had sex with her 15 year old daughter. I would be at the police station with my daughter so fast that Mr. Ivey's head would be "spinning!" I'm just quoting this post in general, but I've noticed a similar sentiment throughout this entire thread. What I don't understand though, is why has no one else pointed out the fact that Margene, who claims to be a mother to Cara Lynn as well, didn't even tell Nicki about the affair when she found out, let alone call the cops? Instead, she was waiting to decide what would be best, and kept reminding Cara Lynn about what the family was going through. It seems to me, Margene, if anything, did even less to help Cara Lynn and was even more concerned about her own personal issues than Nicki. Even Ben did more than Margene did! \ aliensummer: You are absolutely right! I thought that too and was focusing on Nikki, but your right. Just proves that Margene is very immature, which is understanding, being that she is only 19-20 years old.
|
|
|
Post by Jules on Mar 8, 2011 20:25:17 GMT -5
\ aliensummer: You are absolutely right! I thought that too and was focusing on Nikki, but your right. Just proves that Margene is very immature, which is understanding, being that she is only 19-20 years old. Hey Jules, in re-reading the one from aliensummer where it says, "Margene, who claims to be a mother to Cara Lynn as well, didn't even tell Nicki about the affair when she found out, let alone call the cops?" made me think about past years and episodes of Big Love...... the wives and Bill all withhold from one another on a regular basis.....Margene waiting to think through whether or not she had diffused the situation between CL and the wormy teacher is not, to my thinking, such a terrible thing......she knows how much is going on in the family and even said to CL when she was driving them home, "all the family is going through right now." and when she saw CL heading out with a bag of something she knew where she was headed an nailed her to the spot until she told her mother about the Mr. Ivy business so to me that shows Margene, when push came to shove, doing the right thing......... In the lives of the main characters in the world of Big Love so many of the elements are tugging in a dozen different directions for attention......it is all such a Royal Mess. I want to see the magic wand the writers are planning to use to make it come out right, or at least reasonable.Hi Betheaz: Margene is maturing as the season is coming to a close. Remember how giggly she used to be. Remember when Sarah and Scott announced they were getting married and how "immature" Margene was with her "giggling" and excitement? I think for Margene, that really was as far as she would go. She respected Nikki to be the one to take care of the situation. CL is Nikki's daughter. I got to tell you that if it were me, I'd be contacting authorities, but I'm 40 years old and she's barely 20 years old. I am excited to see where they are taking these characters. So close to the end. I hope Margene leaves the Family for "higher" roads.
|
|
|
Post by aliensummer on Mar 8, 2011 20:51:12 GMT -5
Hey Jules, in re-reading the one from aliensummer where it says, "Margene, who claims to be a mother to Cara Lynn as well, didn't even tell Nicki about the affair when she found out, let alone call the cops?" made me think about past years and episodes of Big Love...... the wives and Bill all withhold from one another on a regular basis.....Margene waiting to think through whether or not she had diffused the situation between CL and the wormy teacher is not, to my thinking, such a terrible thing......she knows how much is going on in the family and even said to CL when she was driving them home, "all the family is going through right now." and when she saw CL heading out with a bag of something she knew where she was headed an nailed her to the spot until she told her mother about the Mr. Ivy business so to me that shows Margene, when push came to shove, doing the right thing......... In the lives of the main characters in the world of Big Love so many of the elements are tugging in a dozen different directions for attention......it is all such a Royal Mess. I want to see the magic wand the writers are planning to use to make it come out right, or at least reasonable.My comment was more directed to everyone who was commenting on how Nicki is a bad mother because she didn't go directly to the authorities. I just wanted to point out that Margene really didn't do anything. It was pure luck that she was around when Cara Lynn was trying to sneak out to see Mr. Ivy. What if she wasn't around and Nicki didn't notice her leaving? At least if Margene had told Nicki, Nicki could've decided what to do sooner or kept a better eye on Cara Lynn. And while the wives and Bill have all kept things from one another, it was never something as important as a child sleeping with their teacher. If I was personally in Margene or Nicki's situation, I don't really know what I'd do. But again, my post was to just point out the fact that Margene did just as much as Nicki did when she found out about Cara Lynn and Mr. Ivy. So if Nicki's a bad mom for not calling the authorities, then in my opinion, Margene would have to be a bad mom too.
|
|
|
Post by rissmeek on Mar 8, 2011 21:27:12 GMT -5
I think Margene and Nikki are both bad moms in this situation. Margene was trying to figure out how to come down on Cara and Greg while not mentioning she had done the same thing. Nikki is a bad mom not because she didn't run to the authorities but because her first thing was not how could you do this to my child but how could you do this to me. They were both being self-centered.
|
|
|
Post by albertaleon on Mar 8, 2011 21:36:14 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying about Margene. She was the one who was paying the most attention to CL - Margene being tuned in allowed her to see the budding relationship between CL & Greg. Margene could have been distracted thinking about her future, concentrating on building another business, the family's precarious situation, the wedding - but in all of the chaos Margene was still paying attention.
I think Margene wanted to confirm her suspicions before saying "Barb, I've got to go follow CL I think she's in a sexual relationship with Greg - come with me!" If it turned out not to be true - Margene could have been told just because she lied about her age when becoming part of the family doesn't mean all 15/16 year olds do.
After returning home with CL & the truth - Margene could have told Nicki. I think Greg's words to Margene - which were out of line - made Margene question herself - making Margene not go with her gut & say "don't think you're off the hook I just have to figure out how this needs to be handled."
I wish Margene would have called an emergency family meeting about CL - I wish this because I would have liked Bill & Barb's input & has CL's spiritual parents I think that they have the right to know. Also, I think since Sarah became sexually active & pregnant at a young age, Margene was so young when starting to have sex & babies - I would have liked the entire family to have had a chance to respond - what's going on - why did Sarah start having sex & get pregnant at a young age, why did they so easily allow themselves to excuse Margene's youth & allow her to enter the family & start having babies, why did CL start having sex at 15.
There is so much going on - I've been in situations in my life where I wanted to wait to discuss something because of the importance of the subject matter.
This weeks episode should be great - we will see more of how Nicki / Margene / CL are handling the situation & if Bill & Barb are told. I do think Margene should have told Barb once she knew the truth & they both could have approached Nicki - or Barb could have gone to Greg. Barb seems to do great in tense situations.
Margene says "Nicki!" after Nicki tells CL not to tell another soul because she doesn't want anyone else to know how she has shamed herself - I think Margene thought those were harsh words. Margene didn't seem concerned for CL's physical safety - I think she would have run towards Nicki & CL to make sure CL was safe if Margene felt Nicki was a physical threat to CL. Margene, Barb & Bill are sitting at the kitchen table talking about various aspects of their situation - Margene didn't seemed concerned about CL. I think if she did she would have either told Barb & Bill - or said she had to run an errand & went to Greg's house. Margene says "Nicki" after Nicki says CL has shamed herself - I think Margene thought that Nicki's words were too harsh.
Greg Ivy is a jerk - instead of saying "I'm going to marry Margene & spend my life protecting her" to Margene he bring up Margene's age - which is none of his business - plus it doesn't have anything to do with his relationship with CL. I think he said it to put Margene in her place - which is jerk behavior. Greg Ivy was a jerk when talking to Nicki - I never heard Greg Ivy say how much he loves CL & wants to be her husband & protector & build an eternal life with her. CL says she wants to marry Greg - but I didn't hear him professing his love for CL. Calling CL sweat heart in front of Nicki given the gravity of the situation was jerk like behavior.
|
|
|
Post by withay on Mar 8, 2011 22:20:56 GMT -5
This is what I'm thinking too. Why would CPS remove Cara Lynn and Nickie's other kids for reporting Ivey? Would someone who knows connect the dots here? She would be doing the lawful thing, so why would she be punished? If, & that's a big if, Nicki went to the officials re: teacher/CL. The CPS would certainly look into the schedule @ home, as far as who is watching CL/kids. If everyone is running around doing errands, going to courthouses on behalf of Bill, staying w/Lois, etc & NO ONE is watching the children & CL; then yes they would remove them. Or, if investigation proves (reasonable cause) that the children aren't being supervised by an adult then this would warrant them to come in & (temporarily) take them until an investigation is complete. But then again, Nicki knew that Mr. Ivey was tutoring CL, he is an adult. The CPS would have to have reasonable cause in order to take the kiddos out of the picture. Just based upon Nicki reporting Ivey (alone), I doubt the kiddos would be removed. It appears that either Margene or Nicki are transporting CL to the study sessions w/Ivey, so she is w/an adult. One would not expect a teacher (of all people) to sexually abuse a student. Where it gets tricky I would think is that CL is the one going over to Ivey's house (more than once). Withay can better shed expert advise on this subject. This is such a complicated situation that it would be hard to say who would be removed from the home, if anyone. My best guess would be that, since Bill is being investigated for basically the same thing, the family would have a choice. Either Bill would have to leave the home or the children would be removed. 90% of the families choose to have the father, who is usually the perpertrator in these cases, move out. Some screwy mothers choose the man over their children, though. Greg would, of course, be suspended from his job, and be arrested. If he had contact with CL again, he would have his bail revoked. Since Bill has not been accused of abusing his daughters, he might be allowed to stay in the home. It would really depend on the judge and whether he thought the family would protect their children from predators. That is why it would be critical that the family report Greg Ivey immediately.
|
|
|
Post by duets on Mar 8, 2011 22:26:08 GMT -5
Thanks Withay!
|
|
|
Post by withay on Mar 8, 2011 22:33:31 GMT -5
You said: That is why it would be critical that the family report Greg Ivey immediately.Brilliant!!!!! Thanks, but it's not really brilliance, just way too much experience with similar situations. Retired CPS.
|
|
|
Post by roughwood on Mar 9, 2011 3:15:52 GMT -5
This is what I'm thinking too. Why would CPS remove Cara Lynn and Nickie's other kids for reporting Ivey? Would someone who knows connect the dots here? She would be doing the lawful thing, so why would she be punished? If, & that's a big if, Nicki went to the officials re: teacher/CL. The CPS would certainly look into the schedule @ home, as far as who is watching CL/kids. If everyone is running around doing errands, going to courthouses on behalf of Bill, staying w/Lois, etc & NO ONE is watching the children & CL; then yes they would remove them. Or, if investigation proves (reasonable cause) that the children aren't being supervised by an adult then this would warrant them to come in & (temporarily) take them until an investigation is complete. But then again, Nicki knew that Mr. Ivey was tutoring CL, he is an adult. The CPS would have to have reasonable cause in order to take the kiddos out of the picture. Just based upon Nicki reporting Ivey (alone), I doubt the kiddos would be removed. It appears that either Margene or Nicki are transporting CL to the study sessions w/Ivey, so she is w/an adult. One would not expect a teacher (of all people) to sexually abuse a student. Where it gets tricky I would think is that CL is the one going over to Ivey's house (more than once). Withay can better shed expert advise on this subject. Thanks duets The *gentiles will come and take us away* is a scare tactic, playing upon one of Nickie's worst fears. I hope Nickie sees through CL's manipulation and turns him in. It'd be nice to see someone from the compound escape the marry-at-sixteen-and have babies bit. But after the trauma with Alby, who knows what she'll do next.
|
|
|
Post by roughwood on Mar 9, 2011 3:22:56 GMT -5
Withay, I missed your post. That makes some sense. It is very complicated! Thanks
|
|