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Post by sportyone on Feb 23, 2010 3:56:09 GMT -5
Decribe Bill's relationships with his wives: Barb: the only true wife, imo. If she hadn't gotten sick, I think that she'd be the only one. Nikki: A convenient but strained relationship. She can fit any role that's needed for the family to follow the principal. Margene: Eye candy; a kid who's uninhibated sexually. She's fertile & able to bring more souls into the family. He thinks of her a his child, but he better keep a look out - she's becoming very independent.
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Post by JJ77 on Feb 23, 2010 8:08:39 GMT -5
Barb being 1st wife is more than just a chronological order - it also means she was the original base of their marriage, the core that everythign else was built off of. As such she is his touch stone and she also feels she must be the one who holds things together. Together they are sort of the "founders" of the family. and IMO, the only marriage that was based on love alone.
Nicki and Bill are complicated at best. I think his marrying Nicki had somethign to do with seeing himself in her in realtion to his compound upbringing. They are the only two who share that history. I think it appealed to bill in the sense that he felt he understood her and vice versa on that level. As much as Bill has tried to shed the "compound" mind set , he still holds a part of it and Nicki appeals to that part of him. She was his attempt at merging his past with his future.
Margene - likely gave Bill the feeling he was saving someone, both spiritually and physically - which in turn egged on his sense of purpose in living the principle. She was young and could be molded. She came from a broken home / past and he could fix her. In turn she gave bill the sense of "savior" he craved and would help grow his family and firmness in the principle.
Ana - was something quite different. Byt he time she came along Bil's other marriages were aready showing stress cracks. Ana was bill's escape from that. In order to justofy it... she must become a wife though right? She was his attempt to reaffirm himself, and his purpose as well. so when that (so quickly) fell apart... it set in motion the domino effect we've seen since - everything else falling further apart.
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Post by albertaleon on Mar 3, 2010 2:06:45 GMT -5
JJ77, I agree with everything you posted. I do think, like sportyone posted, that Barb and Bill would have stayed in a monogamous marriage if Barb had not gotten sick.
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Post by JJ77 on Mar 3, 2010 2:53:13 GMT -5
I think Barb being sick / the death scare her illness gave them definitely played a role.
However, I kind of think about it like this - life and death situations (whether it be a death, near death experience, etc) tend to bring us back to our core. They put things into a very real perspective & remind us of what is most important to us. They get us back to our bare bones so-to-speak. That said - I dont think Bill "freaked out" and decided to become a polygamist. I think his beleif in the principle was always there and he had denounced so much of his upbringing that he'd shoved that back as well - IOW's it's what was at his core. Barb's core likely came down to her love of Bill and her Family , and she accepted the principal due to both. Bill truly beleived - and her family would be taken care of / continue to grow.
I don't think Barb eevr truly got on board , or ever truly accpeted / belived in the principle as bill did / does. She signed on due to her love of bill , not a faith based religous reason - and in that sense he did take advantage of her love. (which i beleive he has actually stated before.)
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Post by mellkell on Mar 3, 2010 19:32:53 GMT -5
I feel that while Bill was originally in love with Barb, and probably considers her his true wife-- he wants it all and uses certain aspects of all three marriages-- he knows Barba will make any scarifice for him. she already has-- he has a conection with Juniper creek and his greed wants him to keep a hand in there and on their money-- I do beleieve he believes he is the prophet, hence his idea of running for seante and them revealing all-- Margie, to me , has always been about sex--- she is a plaything for him & while sometimes I feel bad for her (lonely no friends etc) she has used this situation to her own beneift-- she is also the only one who really doesn't seem Morman--oh she will read a few scriptures if Bill orders her to, but that is to get back in his good graces & bed-- I see Margie as a total opportunist & non-beleiver
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Post by wurks on Mar 3, 2010 19:54:17 GMT -5
I agree with this, but I don't see that as a bad thing at all. In fact that is how it should always work; First the relationship and the love, and then the principle. It really won't last "into eternity" on any other basis.
I guess you could make the case that he changed his principles on her. As some have done, so this being in Bills core belief is probably a good point. Maybe there is a "fundamental truth" to it?
I think you would be surprised how many of the people who are living the lifestyle didn't really go looking for it. It just sort of found them with compelling circumstances... not just some horndog on pogo stick looking for another score motivation.
So isn't this kind of like thinking that monogamous marriages should work just because people believe in "marriage"? That's probably why so many of them don't work... lol
Basically, (fundamentally) If you don't love a man's (or woman's) principles, or love him for his principles, then you don't really love him. No matter what is the sleeping arrangement.
very truly yours, wurks
edited to correct quote box code ~ JJ
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Post by wurks on Mar 3, 2010 20:18:05 GMT -5
Additionally, People with nothing but a root chakra motivation can never make polygamy work. (or monogamy for that matter... lol) I seriously doubt you could ever make polyandry or polyamory work long range. This is the very reason why we have such a Harper Valley PTA mainstream culture now. Some of you seem to be always rooting for the extramarital affair... it's disgusting to me for that to even be on the agenda for a religiously motivated culture as this is supposed to be. Not that it doesn't happen, but it is certainly a departure from the fundamentals. As was the Bill and Ana affair. Never should he have gone there without the commitment first and foremost. Maybe not the marraige per se, but the commitment like... forever. Going for a test drive first is NOT how it works. Read this article, I'm pretty sure that some of you will find it defining you rather painfully well, and explain some of the reasons why in ways you hadn't considered before. www.womensinfidelity.com/very truly yours, wurks
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Post by JJ77 on Mar 3, 2010 22:54:24 GMT -5
I don't see putting love and family first as a bad thing either. I'd like to see Bill do a little more of it.
I also think sacrificing your own beleifs for another's is a bad idea though; not something that is going to work out long term by any means. Which, imo, is basically what Barb did for Bill.
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Post by katilee on Mar 8, 2010 12:13:45 GMT -5
I think, as someone said, that Bill did have The Principle sort of ingrained in him, whether he always knew it or not. I have friends like that from other cultures, say Chinese. They often attempt to become "Americanized" as they put it, but even with their best intentions, I notice they often fall back on their original culture, such as expecting women to take a more submissive role than we may be used to, or maybe they become uber-focused on their children's education, vey Chinese ideals. And I see that same sort of pattern with Bill.
Though he attemtped to live a more mainsteram life, he fell back on what he knew when things got complicated.
BUT this is where I disagree with everyone. I think he really did fall in love with Nikki. I mean think about it, it is hard not to love Nikki. She is not only beautiful, she is hilarious and the MOST CAPABLE stay-at-home Mom I've ever met.
And even when he was mad at her, he was mad with passion. There is a thin line between love and hate. As in, he couldn't have been so mad if he didn't love her.
Last night's scene in the clinic confirmed it. He loves that woman.
As for Marge, he seemed to adore her most in the beginning, but lately, he is questioning her loyalty. I think the problem is that his age is showing here. He is too eary to deal with her like he would have with Barb. And yes, I think their relationship is the most lustful at times.
I never did buy him with Anna. It seemed contrived. He had 3 beautfiul complicated women at home. He didn't really need a 4th. I think the writers just wanted to see what would happen if he brought in a 4th.
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Post by charlottelaurie on Mar 8, 2010 13:57:47 GMT -5
I agree so whole-heartedly with Katilee that there is no point to my repeating it all here.
I just thought I'd add that as Bill gets closer and closer to his destiny as prophet of Juniper Creek, Nicki will become more solidly entrenched at his side, especially if they end up at the compound. She will be his Adaleen.
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Post by prayforpeace on Mar 8, 2010 14:26:03 GMT -5
I think Barb was his first love. the first one he loved truely and had she not got sick-he wouldnt have marrid the other two
he went 12 years with just barb for a reason and that was reason
I think Bill is Barbs first love in return and I think he was Margies
however...after watching last nights finale Im beginnging to wonder if Barb and Margie are end game loves. If the show goes the route of Bill being prophet=I cant for the life of me see barb and marg on that compund. no way no how, both grew up apart from that world. Barb grew up LDS and while marg didnt grow up with a religon and had a lack of love-she cerntainly was not taught to be the perfect compound wife that keeps sweet
so I truely think should Bill take over for roman....barb will divorce him and Margene will end up with Goran and Ana in some form with barb and margie staying friends so Barb can stay in marges kids livs and marge with teeny
that would make Nikki bills end game love....however this also means bill will lost over half his kids-I can see Ben on that compiund and ray and wayne.....sarah wouldnt come....Heck would freeze before Barb sent teeny there for a vist and I cant see marge dropping her 3 toddles off for a week end at the big house
so if bill takes over for roman -he might keep Nikki and their kids and he might keep ben...but he will lose Barb and Marge-teeny and sarah...aaron lester and nell
so if he goes this way I hope its all worth it for him in the end.....
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Post by charlottelaurie on Mar 8, 2010 14:51:46 GMT -5
I think the ultimate presence of all the wives at Juniper Creek is what dictates the self-outing and the fall-out from it. If Bill loses Home Plus and loses the casino and Margie loses the jewelry business, the UEB could nicely support his large family. That desperation would compel (or at least strongly encourage) Margie and Barb to stick with Bill. (Maybe not in real life, but I could see it in the show.)
I said in another post somewhere a while back that I think Barb could be convinced to come on board if she could see it as an opportunity to put her teaching and social work studies to use forming a school, helping the women, keeping the compound free of the creepiness that is embedded now.
If not, Barb would take Teeny, but Benny would go with Bill -- he worships him. Margie, I don't know. If Goran and Anna take her for a ride as some have suggested, she might come rushing back to Bill. She has mentioned her need for security. I see her as more of a question mark than Barb is.
But I do think the family will stay together, and I have believed for the last couple of years that Bill will go back to be prophet. It would give the series closure.
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Post by JJ77 on Mar 8, 2010 15:01:08 GMT -5
Just for the record, I didn't mean to say that Bill doesnt love Nicki or even Margene. I just think that his love for nicki & margen was a bit narcissitic - motivated by self interest , rather than loving them for who they truly are. His love for barb wasn't based on such a self serving basis imo.
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Post by prayforpeace on Mar 8, 2010 16:36:03 GMT -5
I agree JJ77
I think his love for Barb was most pure. he was going down the wrong track in life and met this woman who just took him in and loved him faults and all and he never ever had that kind of pure love before. I think its why he lasted 12 years with just Barb-and why barb stuck through it this far...their love is a strong love...a pure love....a love based soley on love
with Nikki-he cam to love her but he didnt love her at first. he married her because he made a deal with roman......with Margie-its like he was haveing his mid life crises and this young thing just adored the heck out him.
I think he came to loved Nikki and margie but I think he loved barb from the start
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Post by ragnarockette on Mar 9, 2010 1:04:59 GMT -5
Bill + Barb: she loves him. she "rescued him from the streets" and for twenty years has followed him around hoping to change his bad-boy ways even as it grows into a larger-than-life persona for the Principle.
Bill + Nikki: she is "his rock" because her commitment to the Principle will never waver, even if she begins to experience feelings of jealousy. she usually plays the role of antagonist which unites the rest of the family.
Bill + Marge: not only is she the "plaything" but he scooped her out of a sordid, minimum-wage life. for this reason he feels he is entitled to control her. after all, he did give her a family. he is resentful of her newfound independence.
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