Is polygamy just an excuse?

[marionj2]

Like everyone else today, I'm watching Tiger Woods' apology for his infidelity.

And it made me think about Bill's fictional behaviour - his response to temptation is pretty much the same as Tiger's was. "Why not, if I can get away with it?"

Is polygamy and a patriarchal society nothing more than an excuse for behaving badly? I remembered Nicki saying to Margene, "Our husband's dating life is none of our business."

[rhinestone_cowgirl]

Hi

I believe the brand of polygamy as portrayed in the show, IS just an excuse. Obviously it is a TV show and I think that the portrayal of polygamy is not representative of many independent mormon fundamentalists. With regard to polygamy in general, I can only speak from my own beliefs; in my faith (I'm Muslim) there is no pre-marital dating for men or women; polygamy is allowed, and even encouraged in some circumstances, but it is strongly discouraged if a man cannot financially support more than one wife (and there is no communal 'pot' in Islam any money a wife earns is hers to dispose of as she wishes), or he would be unfair in some way between wives, or if his heart is just not inclined that way. It is even a requirement in Islam that a man provides seperate homes for each wife; and the homes have to be of an equal standard (not necessarily the same size as it would depend on the number of children she has and her likes and dislikes; but of the same standard of repair and decor). While the wives could choose to live together; this would be a waiving of their rights and would have to be completely their choice. Similarly a wife could choose to support herself financially; but this is not desirable. In Islam when a man has more than one wife you will see his homes being referred to as his wife's home and he is really a guest in whichever home he is in that night. I actually feel sorry for the men in some respect as I'm sure it must pose a difficulty when your belongings are spread between several homes.

Even if a man is able to fulfill all the rights of all his wives; the absolute limit on the number of wives is four, and you will rarely find a man with even three wives, I think a system where 3 is the absolute minimum required for getting into the higher level of the 'celestial kingdom' is a recipe for disaster; there are not 3 times as many women in any society than thered are men. Also in Islam, while there is a religious basis for polygamy in that many of the early Muslims practiced it; and it is good on the basis of trying to emulate them; overall it is a practical and social practice that has its benefits if people want to be involved in it; but if not; that is fine too. It is not a 'pillar' that the faith is based upon. There is no one Muslim country where the majority are living in polygamous marriages; and in many Muslim countries the figure is less than 1%.

[JJ77]

Interesting post soph - thanks for sharing

Do you feel that the practices and guiding principles you outlined in muslim poly allow more equality between the husband and wives in poly marriages , or simply more equality between the wives?

The way that you described it, it sounds more like the latter to me.

Also, do the women consider the other wives their sister wives , or familY? or do the wives pretty much keep seperate? sharing only a husband , rather than an additional relationship with their husbands other wives?

[BigLoveRocks!]

In regards to Tiger Woods, he disgusts me. I didn't listen to his public apology, but I am sure it was exactly as you described. I never liked him anyway, he always came across to me like a spoiled little brat who got paid entirely too much money to play golf. So now that his private life has come out in the open, I can't say it surprises me at all.

Soph, thank you for sharing that with us about muslims and polygamy. Very interesting stuff! I second JJ77's questions.

[rhinestone_cowgirl]

Hi

in Islam its very much seperate relationships; though I do know of cases where the co-wives (and that is the usual term amongst Muslims in the west) all get on great and even live together; but its not a requirement and they don't all 'marry' each other as seems to be the case with the Henricksons in Big Love. I don't entirely get your first question but will try to answer anyway; but Islam promotes equality between men and women in religious terms so in terms of practice the obligations are pretty much identical overall (although there are some concessions for women while they are on their menses or in a post-partum state); also while the husband is required to provide for his wife or wives; the wife can still work and earn money on her own terms and keep it all to herself; yet he is required to use his earnings to support his wife or wives in that case. He doesn't buy himself any special favours or extra rights if he fulfils his duties in that regard either; because it is expected of him. I've personally known of quite a few cases of Muslim polygamy (consensual cases where all parties agreed and were on board) where the wives have run rings around their husband, or one wife has made it her life's mission to cause misery for the other and in some cases it got so bad that both (or more if that was the case) of the marriages ended. So its no picnic and certainly not for everyone. This is why it says in the Qur'an that you can marry 2, 3 or 4 but if you are unable to in whichever sense; then it is better to marry only one.

[rhinestone_cowgirl]

I hasten to add as well; in Islam a woman gets into heaven in her own right. Her own husband's standing in the religion (and in Islam this is a personal matter not a matter for the community or any priesthood) has no bearing on her own. It is not even a requirement she be married to get into heaven (marriage is not actually obligatory in Islam, just very highly recommended). One of the most told stories from the Qur'an and the Hadith literature is that of Asiya wife of the Pharaoh at the time of Moses Peace be upon Him; her husband was the worst of tyrants who was torturing the believers in one God, yet she is held in the highest esteem and is guaranteed paradise for it. So that factor is simply not an issue in Muslim polygamy of it somehow being a way for a Muslim man to bring more women into heaven. That doctrine simply doesn't exist.

[JJ77]

Thanks for the info

In the OP the husband having to provide equally for his wives (homes of equal standards, etc)seemed to describe a way of insuring equality between the wives. My question was basically - is there equality between a wife and husband as well ?

But I beleive the last two posts lend some explanation...at least on a religion based level.

[rhinestone_cowgirl]

Oh yes there is in the marriage; whether its a 'single' marriage or a plural marriage whether a man has four wives or one wife it doesn't affect the balance of power between the spouses; obviously there are many Muslim cultures where old cultural practices die hard; for example Muslims from the Indian subcontinent observe a lot of practices that are actually from Hinduism; such as them believing divorcees and widows cannot remarry and expecting them to wear only white or light coloured clothing in old age. Also the whole concept of giving the dowry to the man; is the reverse of how it should be in Islam; in Islam the dowry goes to the woman (its not meant to go to her family to pay for the wedding either; as in some Arab cultures) and it is really an insurance policy for her should anything happen; death or divorce of the husband and she is unable to return to work for a while.

[dsc6]

Regardless of the religion, it seems very patriarchal to me. Very testosterone-based, lol. To me, it's just an excuse unless marriages with one wife and multiple husbands is also condoned/ encouraged, etc.

[marionj2]

What an interesting discussion! Thanks for the information, all!

[JJ77]

I realize that there are many polygamous relationships/ marriages that are not based on religion. so excluding those instances -
does anyone one know of a religion / faith that encourages / allows polygamy where one wife takes more than one husband? I wonder if one exists?

[rissmeek]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyandry

In Religion


Draupadi with her five husbands - the Pandavas. The central figure is Yudhishthira; the two to his left are Bhima and Arjuna . Nakula and Sahadeva, the twins, are to his right. Their wife, at far right, is Draupadi. Deogarh, Dasavatar temple.
The Hebrew Bible prohibits polyandry in, for example, Leviticus 20:10. For a woman to have sexual relations when she is married to another (which would include a situation such as polyandry) would constitute adultery, with the consequences that it would have on her status, as well as of her children from that relationship.
Islam also bans polyandry. In Islam the verse from the Quran that is typically used for a proof in this matter is Surah Nisa’ Chapter 4 verses 22 to 24, which gives the list of women with whom one cannot marry and it is further mentioned in Surah Nisa’ Chapter 4 verse 24. Nikah Ijtimah, a pre-Islamic tradition of polyandry, was forbidden by Islam.
There is at least one reference to polyandry in the ancient Hindu epic, Mahabharata. Draupadi marries the five Pandava brothers. This ancient text remains largely neutral to the concept of polyandry, accepting this as her way of life.
Polyandry in the LDS church was practiced by at least Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

I'm guessing the reference to LDS is because some of those two's wives remained married to their first husband.

[BigLoveRocks!]

Polyandry sounds like the way to go to me lol. I mean think about it... 5 husbands... All of them work and have a chore in the house that is all their own... heheheh..

I'm only kidding.

[JJ77]

polygamy is a general term that can mean multiple wives or multiple husbands, right?
kind of the "unisex" plural marriage word ? lol
Just checking...

BLR - ... most women with ONE husband would laugh hysterically if offered two more LOL
I love mine and everything but seriously? My "cope can" would burst at the "F-ing" seams if he multiplied ! I'd take out the trash myself - for the rest of my life to avoid that one! LMAO

[BigLoveRocks!]

Feb 25, 2010 0:41:14 GMT -5 JJ77 said:

polygamy is a general term that can mean multiple wives or multiple husbands, right?
kind of the "unisex" plural marriage word ? lol
Just checking...

BLR - ... most women with ONE husband would laugh hysterically if offered two more LOL
I love mine and everything but seriously? My "cope can" would burst at the "F-ing" seams if he multiplied ! I'd take out the trash myself - for the rest of my life to avoid that one! LMAO

I believe Polygamy and Polygyny are multiple wives and one husband... Polyandry is multiple husbands and one wife.

Yeah... I do think if I had more than one husband I'd probably be in a straight jacket.