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Post by Jules on Mar 4, 2011 15:54:30 GMT -5
betheaz: I never heard of the word "fubar." I will be using that in the future. Love it.
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Post by albertaleon on Mar 5, 2011 0:29:07 GMT -5
Thank you for enjoying the post about Nicki. I really enjoy Big Love & enjoy the characters of Bill, Barb, Nicki & Margene, Lois, Frank, Ben, Adalene, Alby -- ALL of them! I enjoy reading all the posts on this board. What a great group we have here!
I've been thinking about what Barb said to Nicki about performing the legal marriage - Barb told Nicki that she would give Nicki to Bill like Sarai gave Hager to Abraham. I find this interesting because Sarai giving her maidservant to Hager was a huge mistake - but since this was written for the character of Barb to say I think it's important & sheds light on Barb's inner feelings.
Sarai had wanted to give her husband a child for a very long time - God had promised Sarai's husband that they would indeed have a child. At the time of this promise both Sarai & her husband were very old - Sarai listened to the conversation he husband was having from inside a tent - when hearing that God was promising that they would have a child Sarai didn't believe anyone her age could become pregnant & thought it was funny. More time passed & Sarai didn't become pregnant. I'm sure Sarai felt bad about herself for not being able to give her husband a child - I'm also sure that while not on purpose Sarai's husband made her feel bad about herself for not being able to have a child - I think this is clear because typically if your spouse is fulfilled with their mate their mate feels this & as it should be is uplifted -- one spouse may feel bad about not being able to get pregnant / get their spouse pregnant / feel bad about not making enough money - but if the other spouse stays supportive & loving the other spouse will not go into despair for the things making them feel bad about their selves. So - I think Abraham must have contributed greatly to Sarai feeling pathetic for not getting pregnant - if not then Sarai would have not have felt despair.
Feeling pathetic & worthless & like a failure - Sarai tells her husband to take her maidservant Hagar so that she can build a family through her. Sarai's husband did this & Sarai's maidservant became pregnant. Sarai & her maidservant Hagar had a pleasant relationship until Sarai's maidservant became pregnant with Sarai's husband child. After becoming pregnant Hagar despised Sarai & made Sarai miserable - Sarai told her husband that he was responsible for her suffering. Sarai started mistreating Hagar & pregnant Hagar went away -- only to return to give birth to ISHMAEL. Thirteen years later Sarai gives birth to a son, ISAAC. ISHMAEL caused strife in Sarai's life - ISHMAEL I don't think was a person at peace with himself as he was filled with jealousy, was against everyone, & everyone was against him. After seeing ISHMAEL mistreating her son ISAAC - Sarai tells her husband to send ISHMAEL away with his mother - Sarai's husband does so.
Needless to say Sarai didn't enjoy giving her husband another woman - & because Sarai did so her life had a great deal of strife in it.
I wonder if it was written for Barb to say Sarai / Hagar to Nicki to illustrate to us that Barb felt bad about herself for never being able to give Bill anymore children - Bill not meaning to add to Barb's despair was really not happy about this either. Bill could have felt unhappy about his wife not being able to have anymore children - but he could have treated Barb in a way that would have lifted her spirits during this sad time in their lives - eventually Bill & Barb would have moved past these feelings of sadness making the way for Bill to really be in a position to help people living in compounds, to be a respected elected member of Senate - Barb would have come into her own too.
Instead Barb felt horrible about herself allowed Nicki to come into the marriage - perhaps Barb thought she could continue to build her family through Nicki.
To me Nicki does despise Barb - Nicki told Barb that she felt like punching her in the face, Nicki tells lies to Bill about Barb with the intention of moving Bill further away from Barb, Nicki tells lies to Barb about Bill with the intention of moving Barb further away from Bill, Nicki doesn't care about Barb's feelings which seemed clear as Nicki procured her legal wedding day with Bill. I think Nicki is jealous of Barb because Barb has something she doesn't have - which is more than being First Wife. I think Nicki believes her jealousy of Barb will be over once she is First Wife but it won't.
I don't know if Barb & Nicki's & Bill's relationship will end up like Sarai & Hagar & Abraham's - but if it does then it means Barb & Bill will end up together & Barb will tell Bill that Nicki has to go.
Regardless, I'm SHOCKED that Barb would use Sarai & Hagar as an example to illustrate her point to Nicki considering how everything worked out for Sarai - she wasn't happy about it.
Betheaz - I love the expressions of our military! Both my husband & my father served our country in the Army. FUBAR is a great one!
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Post by Jules on Mar 5, 2011 7:34:24 GMT -5
Wow, again Albertaleon!!! Thank you so much for posting this take on Sarai & Hagar & Abraham story..... I heard when Barb said that to Nikki and I didn't think anything of it, but after reading what you wrote makes so much more sense to me! One of the things that I read about the making of "Big Love" is the writer's truly do their historical research. There was a reason why Barb would point out that story from the Bible that didn't turn out good. Interesting! Now, I am really pondering and have a bit of hope that the producers may just end this with Bill and Barb together. It would make sense and I would be soooo happy if this happened. Did you notice too that they have really made Nikki's character be so "mean" this season. Yes, she's had a couple of tender moments, but they have made an effort to make fans who even loved Nikki be irritated with you this season. Anyway, I really love reading your "insights" on the show. Makes me think more indepth of certain things that happen. Thanks for your postings Albertaleon!
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Post by albertaleon on Mar 5, 2011 8:07:59 GMT -5
Jules, Thank you very much!
I know, it seems as though the writers had Barb telling Nicki "like Sarai gave Hager to Abraham" for a reason. To me it does put some insights on the internal struggles of Barb - Barb still has to feel bad about herself for not being able to give Bill any more children. Also, perhaps Barb's giving Nicki to Bill is based on a selfish reason that has no hope of playing out the way Barb intends - Sarai wanted to have a baby & believed that she could build her family through her maidservant Hager. This didn't work out as Hager despised Sarai once she became pregnant & had no intentions of not being a mother to her son Ishmael. Sarai believed the child Hager would have would be her son. Sarai was miserable. After receiving her promise from God, Isaac, Sarai was happy - she didn't like the way Ishmael treated Isaac so she told her husband to send Hager & Ishmael on their way. Their story ended well Isaac was blessed as was Ishmael & Hagar - I'm hoping that since their story ended well so will Barb's, Nicki's & Margene's.
Nicki will be telling a female that she is trying to get off of the compound "look at me I'm legally married, have my own home, have nice things, don't you want a life like mine?" Nicki really is talking about her legal marriage a little too much - I don't know if Barb is going to address this & if Nicki is going to start behaving in a way that causes Barb to tell Bill she doesn't like this & that he is responsible for all of her sorrow (like Sarai told her husband) - I don't know if Bill's SHOCKING REVELATION will be that polygamy is wrong & causes too much pain - then tells Barb he loves her.
I don't know - I think for me to be satisfied with the ending I will have to know that Bill knows about Nicki's lies leading up to the legal wedding. I will have to know that Nicki isn't going to be aloud to ruin her family. If this isn't clear, I have no confidence for The Henricksons to lead a happy life with Nicki as legal wife - I think it was difficult for them with Nicki just in the mix given the nature of her personality.
Jules, thank you so much for the compliment.
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Post by Jules on Mar 5, 2011 10:23:45 GMT -5
albertaleon: Absolutely! Just digressing to share a point. I just got into this series a few months ago and purchased the seasons 1-4 and watched all of it. I then started going onto the message boards of HBO and facebook, but didn't see much useful content of what viewers were posting. I then hopped onto this site which is soooo incredible. I really appreciate postings like yours that make me think of so many different angles of the show. This site and your postings has made the show more enjoyable to me. I agree with you saying that you hope that Bill discovers Nikki's (bad ways if you will) at the end of the series. I really hope so too. She always gets away with so much and I just have never seen the chemistry between Bill and Nikki. Barb has sacrificed so much. I wish they would just adopt a child together. She had mentioned that toward the end of Season 3 in wanting to adopt and that never went anywhere. I am glad that Barb is trying to find herself this season and is standing up for herself. Well, at least sort of.... she still plays the "doormat" to everyone most of the time. I can't believe only three more episodes left. I'm so excited to see how they end this!
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Post by marigoldmama on Mar 5, 2011 14:11:47 GMT -5
Alberta and everyone, that was an excellent pick up on the Sarai-Hagar angle. I know that story and I didn't pick that up at all. It went over my head completely. I'm so ashamed.
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Post by Jules on Mar 5, 2011 17:03:03 GMT -5
I know that story and I didn't pick that up at all. It went over my head completely. I'm so ashamed. me too marigoldmama! It went over my head and I think those words were very poignant. I don't believe that the producers are going to leave Bill married to Nikki at the ending episode. I just don't see them doing that. Barb will triumph somehow and someway at the end. Crossing fingers.....
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Post by writerwannabe on Mar 17, 2011 18:47:04 GMT -5
@alberta. Great take on the Abraham/Sarai/Hagar analysis. I don't think that Abraham could have done anything to relieve Sarai's sorrow over her being barren. In their culture, children were everything to a woman. He didn't put her aside, which he easily could have done.
When the episode ran, what went through my mind was "Barb just compared Nikki to a slave!"
There are actually two stories of Sarai casting out Hagar. The first time is when Hagar is pregnant and when she "saw that she had conceived, she looked with contempt on her mistress." Sarai complains to Abram who tells her, she's your slave, do what you want with her. Sarai kicks her out, but an angel tells her to "return to your mistress and submit to her." Fourteen years later after Sarai gives birth to Isaac, she sees Ishmael playing with little Isaac at a party to celebrate his weaning. She tells Abraham to cast out Hagar and Ishmael, but Abraham doesn't want to do it. God tells him to do what his wife is asking him to do! (Novel idea!) God tells him it's OK because he will make Ishmael a father of nations, also.
Personally, I've always thought Sarah is the villain of this story because she is willing to send Hagar and Ismael out into the desert to die. I don't think Barb would do that. But Nikki would!
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Post by girlygirl on Mar 20, 2011 9:10:07 GMT -5
I wish I could have just seen one episode where Barb punched Nikki's face. Sorry, I know that is cruel, but Nikki deserves it.
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