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Post by bigluvjunkie on Feb 2, 2011 14:52:35 GMT -5
Albert,
I wouldn't consider the lie so bad if Margie wasn't activiely endangering the family in the context of Bill coming out to the public. Just as Bill justifiably said that Nicki's transgressions endangered the safety of the family, the same is true for this transgression.
Yes she was afraid that the Hendrikson's wouldn't love her anymore if she came out--we can all understand that. However, if she can't understand that making Bill guilty of a felony trumps her fears, then maybe she doesn't deserve to get what she wants after all.
The shabby writing comes out when you consider how strongly Marge came out against Bill's run for office. If she had any brains (or someone halfway smart to advise her) she would have exposed the secret to Bill in his office.... Perhaps Bill would have been ashamed enough to agree to protect Margie's secret from Barb and Nicki. But surely he would have realized he had to drop out of the race.
Albert, I can understand that the family's priority should be helping Marge, but the best way of helping her may be admitting the marriage was a big mistake. As penance, Bill and Barb should send Marge to college--she and her kids can stay in some kind of family housing and Bill and Barb can visit.
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Post by marigoldmama on Feb 2, 2011 17:16:10 GMT -5
Barb said it right: We are all so unholy. I think Bill takes some blame. Margene takes a lot of blame because she deliberately lied. Ginger takes the most blame for endangering her daughter by lying about her age. Parents are supposed to protect their children, not lie for them. My husband was wondering if Ginger gave her permission to have Margene marry, then is it still illegal? Can't you get married underage with parental consent? (I realize that this was a spiritual marriage not a legal marriage but you know what I mean) I really don't like this storyline at all. I think it kinda takes the show apart. Ginnifer Goodwin said that this will "explain it all". I disagree, I think it just makes it all more confusing. Unless that is what the writers were going for...confusion?
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Post by firstwife on Feb 3, 2011 15:07:40 GMT -5
Perhaps Margene's lie could be overlooked if she had come clean earlier. But she perpetuated the lie for 5 years because she knew it was wrong. Even in the face of Bill running for office, she failed to come clean.
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Post by marigoldmama on Feb 3, 2011 17:45:02 GMT -5
Yeah right...more sloppy writing. Margene knew she was underage and involved in a plygamous relationship but wanted Bill to run for office? Highly unlikely if you knew you were carrying a huge bombshell like that. What about when she married Goren, didn't she provide ID for that? Highly unlikely that you would volunteer to marry someone when you are carrying this secret.
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Post by withay on Feb 3, 2011 23:13:52 GMT -5
Yeah right...more sloppy writing. Margene knew she was underage and involved in a plygamous relationship but wanted Bill to run for office? Highly unlikely if you knew you were carrying a huge bombshell like that. What about when she married Goren, didn't she provide ID for that? Highly unlikely that you would volunteer to marry someone when you are carrying this secret. Margene did not want Bill to run for office. And as far as Goren and Ana are concerned, it's unlikely that they would have known how old Margene had told the family that she was. The marriage with Ana did not last long enough for Ana to catch the discrepancy in how old Margene was. If you keep your story straight, it is possible to keep your age a secret for years. True story. My grandmother started lying about her age at 14. She wanted to be 16 so she could get a job. Somehow she got paperwork showing she was born 2 years earlier than she was and kept the story up until she retired. Then she had a hard time retiring and getting her social security because the government finally discovered the discrepancy!
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Post by duets on Feb 3, 2011 23:59:29 GMT -5
I've got one similar to that one, Withay. My Grandmother, never told us her age. We were brought up, to never ask her & if we did, we got various answers. At the time of her death, we still weren't sure. After checking thru many & any means available @ the time, we came up with several different DOB's/ages, hmm. We were left scratching our heads & picking an age from 2 or 3 possibilities to pick from, lol.
She certainly seemed to have kept the secret to herself!
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Post by withay on Feb 4, 2011 2:34:33 GMT -5
I've got one similar to that one, Withay. My Grandmother, never told us her age. We were brought up, to never ask her & if we did, we got various answers. At the time of her death, we still weren't sure. After checking thru many & any means available @ the time, we came up with several different DOB's/ages, hmm. We were left scratching our heads & picking an age from 2 or 3 possibilities to pick from, lol. She certainly seemed to have kept the secret to herself! At least you knew that there was a question about her age! We never knew until she tried to file for her Social Security. And like Margene, that meant that she had married at a much earlier age than thought and had her first child at 16 instead of 18.
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Post by aliensummer on Feb 4, 2011 10:48:19 GMT -5
My great-grandmother never knew her age! She was born in the country in Jamaica, and every so often someone from the government would come to record any births and their files were known to not be all that reliable (for example, one of my great-grandmother's sister was given her mom's maiden name because the person who reported her birth had forgotten her married name, and the recorded names of babies would be wrong from their actual given names). There's about a five year discrepancy, but everyone but one person in the family agreed on one year based on the known ages of some siblings, and the remembered birth order of her two other siblings who's exact ages aren't known.
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Post by marigoldmama on Feb 4, 2011 11:52:44 GMT -5
Withay, How are you, by the way ;D Glad to see you! Why would Margene volunteer to marry Goren knowing she'd have to hand in official documents? You'd think she wouldn't be so hot to volunteer to show any paperwork and just kinda lay back on those types of things. If I were carrying that secret, I wouldn't want to produce any documents to marry a potentially deporting immigrant. I'd lay real low. I thought Margene was Ok with the campaign but maybe you are right...I haven't watched that season in a long time so maybe I am remembering it wrong.
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Post by aliensummer on Feb 4, 2011 12:20:14 GMT -5
Why would Margene volunteer to marry Goren knowing she'd have to hand in official documents? You'd think she wouldn't be so hot to volunteer to show any paperwork and just kinda lay back on those types of things. If I were carrying that secret, I wouldn't want to produce any documents to marry a potentially deporting immigrant. I'd lay real low. I think this is a perfect example of the writers really blowing this story. It doesn't make any sense for Margene to do something like that with her secret. Even if she didn't think that Ana and Goran would check that, she'd still have to worry about the government looking into it. It also doesn't make sense that she wouldn't have used this secret as a way to convince Bill to drop out of his run for office. It is really obvious that the writers hadn't thought this through.
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Post by duets on Feb 4, 2011 15:05:09 GMT -5
I think Margene acts fast w/o thinking things thru. Maybe it's just her personality. At her age then, implications were/are the last thing on her mind.
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Post by albertaleon on Feb 5, 2011 16:24:02 GMT -5
Margene seemed very close to Ana to me - Ana got turned off by Bill & The Principle quickly. One minute everyone was asking Ana to marry them & the next Ana is telling Bill that he's basically disgusting. I wonder if Margene told Ana how old she was when she was sealed to the family - Margene could have told Ana not to tell, it was a secret & she was ashamed - after Margene tells Ana her age Ana becomes disgusted at Bill & The Principle. Pregnant with Bill's child, Ana doesn't even want to contact with The Henricksons. When Bill & Barb see Ana at the casino Ana isn't happy & has a "what do you disgusting people want from me" attitude.
I think it's possible Ana knew about Margene's age & this is one reason why Ana became disgusted with Bill. Out of respect for her friendship with Margene, Ana doesn't say anything to Bill, Barb or Nikki.
There was one scene when Ana, Goran & Margene were embracing & I was really afraid they were all going to start making out -- but now I think Ana & Goran were embracing Margene the way you would embrace a young girl who you have come to bond with care about & know she's way too young to be a wife of Bill's & had children so young.
The scene this season where Ana is at Margene's & Margene starts to spaz out - dancing & turning up the music. I wonder now if Margene was doing this because she was trying to distract Ana from telling Bill about her age. I can see Ana telling Margene that since she has to leave with Goran she wouldn't feel right leaving Margene without telling Bill about her age - I can see Ana being older & wiser than Margene saying "Margene Bill has to know - you are too young & are going to have let these people know because you need help Margene - this isn't healthy - you were 15 years old when you started having sex with Bill & you were doing it because you wanted to be adopted into a family - Bill doesn't know you Margene but these people have to know so they can take care of you & make sure you are alright."
When Bill enters Margene gets nervous starts running around dancing, being loud, turning up the music loud - almost to drown out anything Ana might say to Bill.
To me Margene really wanted Ana to be part of The Henricksons. It seemed like to me Margene needed Ana because Margene never really felt accepted by Nikki or Barb. I do think Margene would have told Ana about her secret - I do realize that when Margene told how old she was & NO ONE reached out to Margene telling her that they are a family & love her - Margene did say she had been carrying around her secret alone for all this time.
Yet the scene with Ana, Margene & Bill was weird to me - I can see Margene dancing & behaving so strangely if she was trying to avoid Ana saying anything to Bill about her age. Perhaps Ana being close to Margene, spending time with her, and getting to know her figured it out on her own. Maybe Ana told Margene "Margene I need to talk to Bill - you seem so young - more like a teen - I think Bill needs to make sure you are okay - something is wrong here Margene" & Margene during the dance scene was trying to make sure Ana didn't say anything such as that to Bill.
I got the feeling Ana became disgusted by Bill - I also got the feeling that Ana & Margene were very close with Ana caring about Margene. I think it's because Ana did care about Margene - Margene really wanted Ana to stay - being loved & cared for is what Margene has wanted her entire life.
BigLoveJunkie, Margene did lie about her age - but Margene wasn't living under The Principle like Bill. When Bill met Margene Bill was supposed to be leading what he considered to be a God centered life - creating a life on Earth & Eternity. Margene was a young girl with no guidance - Bill was an older man who was claiming to be building a God centered life. Bill had a responsibility to God, himself, his family & his eternal existence to make sure Margene was old & mature enough to become part of the family. Had Bill taken the time to get to know Margene & nurture her spirit & teach her about their religion Bill would have probably realized there is no way Margene was really 18. Plus, 18 was way too young for Bill to have sex with Margene.
How could Bill place his trust in an 18 year old girl when Bill is living a God centered life building a celestial kingdom? I'm really disappointed at how Margene's so called family reacted to her secret - Bill should have told Margene he's sorry & feels guilty - upset or not these people are supposed to love Margene & if they loved her they would feel Margene's hurt - and they would be hurt that Margene was so young when Bill started having sex with her. Barb has a Psychology Degree - Barb should know the ramifications of a 15 year old girl having sex with a much older man - Barb should know Margene was motivated to do this to fill a void in her.
Bill is the leader of The Henricksons & he is the one who has said "we have to be careful" - Bill should have known better than to get involved with a girl who is 18, 16 - just too young for Bill to be having sex with.
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Post by rissmeek on Feb 5, 2011 21:38:07 GMT -5
Ana didn't know Margene's lie well not last season anyway. The writers have already said that they came up with it for this season.
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Post by albertaleon on Feb 6, 2011 12:22:17 GMT -5
I haven't read any articles with Mark Olsen or Will Scheffer discussing when they decided to write things. I read that they have been working on Big Love for 8 years & they always had a vision for The Henricksons - they've admitted in interviews that they got away from the true essence of Big Love in Season 4.
This Season when Margene was dancing & putting up the music loud - she could have been doing so to distract Ana from telling Bill her concerns about Margene.
Have you read interviews with Olsen & Scheffer discussing Margene's age? If so, please give me the link because I would love to read them!
In one interview they say that they are developing a new show for HBO & it will be revealed after the finale of Big Love. I wonder if their new show will be as good as Big Love - I do wish Big Love at least had one more season! I'm going to miss The Henricksons!
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Post by bigluvjunkie on Feb 6, 2011 12:43:32 GMT -5
Albert there is an "Inside the Ep" video available on ep 5.3, featuring Olsen and Scheffer. See here seriesandtv.com/big-love-s05e03-recap-certain-poor-shepards/4980Basically they say they came up with the idea of Marge being underage during the writing of this season. At first the writing staff wasn't keen on it but eventually the storyline became a big part of Season 5.
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