zoar
New Member
Posts: 49
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Post by zoar on Mar 8, 2010 20:08:16 GMT -5
I think the writers are really grasping at straws now. Come on; Test tube babies and generational incest by artificial insemination! That is more of a story for the SyFy channel then for Big Love. Why didn’t they just stick to a more realistic plot of underage marriages being conducted in Kansas? At least it would have been believable.
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Post by kambria on Mar 8, 2010 23:42:59 GMT -5
I think the writers are really grasping at straws now. Come on; Test tube babies and generational incest by artificial insemination! That is more of a story for the SyFy channel then for Big Love. Why didn’t they just stick to a more realistic plot of underage marriages being conducted in Kansas? At least it would have been believable. I believe it was mentioned by other posters that the Big Love families (i.e. the Greens, the Walkers) were based off of actual polygamist families that were known to do such things. I read an article a while back about a polygamist family that was experimenting with inbreeding in order to keep the bloodline "pure". That included incestuous marriages/couplings, artificial insemination and the like.
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Post by withay on Mar 9, 2010 1:49:38 GMT -5
The Kingston family is the most infamous FLDS family that is known for intermarriage and artificial insemination to "keep their bloodlines pure". Strange and unbelieveable but sadly, true.
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Post by prayforpeace on Mar 9, 2010 11:33:47 GMT -5
I rember when wanda had her son in season one and lois told joey-this ones gonna live
I wonder if wandas other babies was really her and JJs and they died in birth due to birth defects
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Post by charlottelaurie on Mar 9, 2010 17:57:25 GMT -5
I'm not sure that Wanda's first child was the result of inbreeding/insemination even though the baby did not live.
*****Spoiler Alert ********
Remember that Wanda herself is the result of inbreeding, and so she could have genetic issues that caused the baby's difficulties. Not sure if we already discussed the fact that her parents are brother and sister, hence the spoiler alert, but since it isn't a random, just-found-out spoiler, I couldn't see it in the sub-board.
I remember in the book Hawaii (James Michener) the Alii Nui was traditionally married to a brother so that the line would be pure. Any abnormal children were left to die by the shore. So as horrible as the thought is, its practice was not limited to these fringe FLDS groups.
It was heartening to hear (in a 'small favors' way) that Roman was involved in curtailing the practice, even promising Cara Lynn to Toby to get her away from JJ. Adaleen says this last part as a realization when she is screaming at JJ. It reinforces my belief, way back in season 1, that when he and Nicki were on the bed together, it was just a normal father-daughter moment, and he was trying to cheer her up, tease her out of her mood.
Of course he was engaged to Rhonda at the time, but he was such a complex character! And Harry Dean Stanton was so terrific in the role.
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Post by caltron on Mar 9, 2010 19:56:25 GMT -5
I think the writers are really grasping at straws now. Come on; Test tube babies and generational incest by artificial insemination! That is more of a story for the SyFy channel then for Big Love. Why didn’t they just stick to a more realistic plot of underage marriages being conducted in Kansas? At least it would have been believable. ITA. The whole test tube baby storyline has been a major FAIL IMO. It may be reality in certain polygamous sects, but the way the writers went about portraying that reality was waaaaay over the top. It all just seemed to be thrown in there at the last minute for immediate impact. I wish the writers had left out all the machetes, chopped off arms and burning mad scientist labs out of the storyline. All of this silliness took away from the most compelling moments of the season. I would have rather seen more a slower pace on Barb's feelings for Tommy, Margene's growing need for independence and Alby's coping with his sexuality, the effects of the lifestyle on Teeny, etc.
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zoar
New Member
Posts: 49
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Post by zoar on Mar 9, 2010 19:58:26 GMT -5
The Kingston family is the most infamous FLDS family that is known for intermarriage and artificial insemination to "keep their bloodlines pure". Strange and unbelieveable but sadly, true. withay, The only incident on record involves Jeremy Ortell Kingston, who was convicted for his incestuous marriage to fifteen-year old LuAnn Kingston, who was his first cousin. The reationship became known when Luann tried to leave the group with her two daughters. The story appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune October 31, 2003. As to artificial insemination, that is just Big Love fiction. It makes for a good story line though.
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Post by JJ77 on Mar 9, 2010 22:24:05 GMT -5
Actually zoar it's not just big love fiction... and it wasnt based on the kingston's, nor are they the only "on the record" incident. It was based (I beleive) on a case brought against a Lebaron - in which he claimed to have "artifically inseminated" to fight incest charges. At the time sexual intercourse had to be proven to charge someone with incest. (2008) So despite dna evidence that he fathered his daughters children , he got off scot free. (The laws have since been changed to eliminate that loophole.) I can't seem to locate a full article about it, but this one should give you a starting point if you wanna read about it : www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy1062.htmlI think the writers use bits and peices of different FLDS members who have made the news... to form their own version of these "villans", but despite how off the wall unbeleivabe some of the peices they use are... I've yet to find one that hasnt been in the media at some point.
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Post by zooxstation on Mar 10, 2010 8:15:55 GMT -5
I'm not sure that Wanda's first child was the result of inbreeding/insemination even though the baby did not live. *****Spoiler Alert ******** Remember that Wanda herself is the result of inbreeding, and so she could have genetic issues that caused the baby's difficulties. Not sure if we already discussed the fact that her parents are brother and sister, hence the spoiler alert, but since it isn't a random, just-found-out spoiler, I couldn't see it in the sub-board. I remember in the book Hawaii (James Michener) the Alii Nui was traditionally married to a brother so that the line would be pure. Any abnormal children were left to die by the shore. So as horrible as the thought is, its practice was not limited to these fringe FLDS groups. It was heartening to hear (in a 'small favors' way) that Roman was involved in curtailing the practice, even promising Cara Lynn to Toby to get her away from JJ. Adaleen says this last part as a realization when she is screaming at JJ. It reinforces my belief, way back in season 1, that when he and Nicki were on the bed together, it was just a normal father-daughter moment, and he was trying to cheer her up, tease her out of her mood. Of course he was engaged to Rhonda at the time, but he was such a complex character! And Harry Dean Stanton was so terrific in the role. Yeah, it was sort of good to hear that Roman wanted no parts of that inbreeding creepiness...although promising Cara Lynn to that old man Toby was creepy in of itself...LOL. However, at least his reason for it was to get Cara Lynn away from JJ, I guess that's something.
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Post by miceelf on Mar 10, 2010 10:02:37 GMT -5
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Post by aliensummer on Mar 10, 2010 12:40:29 GMT -5
I think the storyline could've been dealt with a lot better. I understand that they were under a time crunch, but then this part shouldn't have been wrapped up in this season, but continued into the next. There was really no explanation as to what was going on, or even why it was going on. I don't even remember them saying in the show that JJ and Wanda's parents were also siblings. There was just so much more that could've and should've been done with this, but wasn't. It really made it come off as silly, rushed, and incomplete.
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Post by JJ77 on Mar 10, 2010 19:41:37 GMT -5
I'm hoping the story will be picked back up (at least a little bit) next season. JJ's son , Dr. Roquet wasnt in the fire after all. Plus, after his stated intent of righting the wrongs within compounds etc & what almost happened to Nicki... I'd be surprised if Bill just let it go.
JJ and wanda's parents being siblings was in a spoiler , but as far as the actual show it was never stated.
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Post by writerwannabe on Mar 11, 2010 1:35:54 GMT -5
As JJ77 said, the show never actually said that JJ and Wanda's parents are brother and sister. The fingernails were the clue that JJ, and presumably Wanda, are the result of an incestous breeding. I wonder if Lois knew about Wanda's parentage? She has commented many times about how Wanda is not "right."
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Post by JJ77 on Mar 11, 2010 12:37:35 GMT -5
Good question writerwannabe. I wonder if she knew as well. Joey and Wanda are 2nd cousins and these communities seem pretty close knit to boot... so you would think she might have.
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zoar
New Member
Posts: 49
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Post by zoar on Mar 11, 2010 18:24:57 GMT -5
Actually zoar it's not just big love fiction... and it wasnt based on the kingston's, nor are they the only "on the record" incident. It was based (I beleive) on a case brought against a Lebaron - in which he claimed to have "artifically inseminated" to fight incest charges. At the time sexual intercourse had to be proven to charge someone with incest. (2008) So despite dna evidence that he fathered his daughters children , he got off scot free. (The laws have since been changed to eliminate that loophole.) I can't seem to locate a full article about it, but this one should give you a starting point if you wanna read about it : www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy1062.htmlI think the writers use bits and peices of different FLDS members who have made the news... to form their own version of these "villans", but despite how off the wall unbeleivabe some of the peices they use are... I've yet to find one that hasnt been in the media at some point. I read the article. it all makes sense now. The Lebarons, say no more. if anyone would do it it would be them. Of all the groups, their view of the principle is the most unique and the most bizzare
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