Bill's self righteousness this episode...

[BigLoveRocks!]

Bill keeps making comments in this episode referring to Joey, Frank and Lois as "crabs in a barrel trying to pull everyone in with them" and acting as if he always cleans up their messes etc.


Where does Bill get off?

[dsc6]

There was a lot of bitterness coming out this episode from both Bill and Joey about how each responded to their decisions as young men. I didn't know it was there. I do think it's better that Joey did not get to murder Hollis. Joey was surely not thinking rationally at all and his actions could have resulted in the death of his whole family ultimately and his own death. Hollis is the scum of the earth and deserves to die a horrible death, but Joey is not the one to do it.

[kambria]

If you ask me, they both looked like whiny little boys when they were arguing back and forth! I wanted to tell both of them to shut up and just do what was best for the family, never mind all of that personal B.S.! lol I guess I was thinking about how I would be acting if that were me in that situation.

[JJ77]

I think this episode centered around all the things left unsaid , or brewing under the surface of bill, lois , frank, joey... basically the 1st gen henrickson's. (so to speak)

It made for an incredibly intense episode imo.

I think Joey was resentful of Bill for being "left behind" and Bill is resentful of Joey (and his mom and dad) for "dragging him back" when he was trying to cut ties and do somethign better with his life. I understood both sides really...

[kambria]

Feb 22, 2010 1:18:14 GMT -5 JJ77 said:

I think this episode centered around all the things left unsaid , or brewing under the surface of bill, lois , frank, joey... basically the 1st gen henrickson's. (so to speak)

It made for an incredibly intense episode imo.

I think Joey was resentful of Bill for being "left behind" and Bill is resentful of Joey (and his mom and dad) for "dragging him back" when he was trying to cut ties and do somethign better with his life. I understood both sides really...

I agree with you, and it all made the epi very entertaining. It just seemed to be a really bad time to hash out all of the past issues when people's lives were still at stake.

[JJ77]

Practicality wise - yeah it wasnt the best time to pause and hash things out. lol
But I think it was the situation that enabled them to come out with it - emotions running high, life's on th eline, etc. has a way of bringing things to the surface.

[southernsong]

Bill was really making me mad this episode. And the thing is, I just knew that they were going to have him swoop in and save the day - and danged if he didn't. Of course, Lois also helped out, which made me able to stomach it. It just made me so sick hearing Bill talk to Joey in that way. Who does he think he is?

[albertaleon]

Didn't the show begin with Joey and Bill being very estranged from each other? I kind of remember Bill not wanting to go back to Juniper Creek (when the show started) to help Joey with something. I remember Lois saying something such as "Bill you have to talk to your brother." When the show started I got the impression that Bill never wanted to return to Juniper Creek and he did not want to have his family to have anything to do with Juniper Creek. Lois said to Ben in the episode "I don't really know you I just pretend I do." When the show started I was under the impression that Bill was very detached from Juniper Creek. I thought that Bill and Barb had raised their children in the church but were close to Barb's family never having anything to do with Bill's family. When Barb got sick with cancer Nicki was brought into the family. Bill still seemed to hate Juniper Creek and really disliked it when Roman was at their house sitting on the bed with Nicki.

As the show has moved forward I am have been shocked as to how many dealings Bill has had with Juniper Creek and his family given my impression of the estrangement of Bill with his family when the show started. Refresh my memory but when the show started didn't Lois indicate that she did not know Bill's children.

I think in many ways Bill feels as though he is better than his family and the people at Juniper Creek. I think that Bill feels as though Joey is beneath him. Perhaps what we were seeing in this episode was Bill's disdain at himself for getting involved with his family again. Bill is a complex character. I want to like him because he does seem to want the best and he has achieved a great deal. I know it is a show but I cannot imagine having a chain store like Home Plus, a casino, running for political office, and a large family (not including Bill's Juniper Creek family).

Perhaps Bill wanted to be successful and that is why he is so driven to do so much. Perhaps Bill never wanted to get back into the lives of his mom, dad, brother, and Juniper Creek. Again, the only thing I can come up with is that Bill is hating himself for allowing himself to get tangled up with his mom, brother and dad again. I think that Bill is mad at himself for letting his family get back into his life. It is always something with them such as poisoning Alby. Bill does have to jump in and save his mom, dad and brother from their erratic and often dangerous behavior.

I apologize for this being so long. Sometimes I am mad at Bill. In this episode I think that we were seeing Bill being mad at himself for being involved in another crazy and deadly situation with his brother, mom and brother.

[blazdell]

But everything that Bill did and didnt do, and the fighting with Joey, at first made me mad at Bill even more. But Bill also redeemed himself tonight not only in my eyes but in Benny's eyes. Bill saying to Hollis he would give up everything for Ben, speaks volumes to me and shows the difference between Bill and his dad.

[albertaleon]

Blazedell, I think you are right about Ben and Bill. I think the reason we hear Bill speak so poorly of his parents, brother and Juniper Creek is because he wanted to leave it all behind him. Bill was hurt growing up. I think that he looks down on his family for choosing to live on the compound.

[biglovelove]

Bill keeps making comments in this episode referring to Joey, Frank and Lois as "crabs in a barrel trying to pull everyone in with them" and acting as if he always cleans up their messes etc.
Where does Bill get off?
-------------

Yes BigLoveRocks I feel the same way. He is on a roll isn't he? His judgement of his two wives, his son, brother, mother and father (well until we heard Frank's pain this episode we probably all felt he deserved it) is a little much. He is asking Barb to forgive him because he is a person that makes mistakes. He needs to remember this when passing out his judgement of everyone.

I am waiting for something big and bad to happen between Bill and Barb. Whether it be her signing the contract with Marilyn or having an affair with Tommy, I want to see how Bill handles it. Will he just judge her and cast her aside like he has tried to do to everyone else (he eventually has apologized, but not after acting like a jerk first) or will he forgive her!

[Nickifan]

It's hard for me to remember that Joey got out of Juniper Creek on a football scholarship and stardom, and then ended up back at the compound because he got messed up with alcohol addiction. Apparantly Bill thinks less of him for that.

There are so many unanswered "things" with Bill's JP clan -

1. Why was Wanda sealed to Joey? Was it a love match, or was it all Joey could handle when he was in recovery? Now that we know Wanda is JJ's sister, is there more to it than that?

2. What was it that happended to Bill and Joey's sister Maggie? I know she died, and Lois cut her hair began wearing modern clothes as part of her mourning for that - but what actually happened?

The web from the compound keeps tightening around Bill. Do you really think he's on a forced path to become the prophet? It's what Lois and Nicki have always believed, and Roman apparently booted him out to keep it from happening.

[JJ77]

1. Why was Wanda sealed to Joey? Was it a love match, or was it all Joey could handle when he was in recovery? Now that we know Wanda is JJ's sister, is there more to it than that?

I dont know this for sure , as i cant recall their past really being divulged all that much - but i think Joey and wanda absolutely married for love.
I think there may have been a time when they were living together and not sealed - wanda said something in (I think season 1) like "and we're married now" as if the marriage wasn't the start of their relationship. Also, joey initially did not want to I've the principle or poly. So I don't think it was "arranged".

2. What was it that happened to Bill and Joey's sister Maggie? I know she died, and Lois cut her hair began wearing modern clothes as part of her mourning for that - but what actually happened?

While both Bill and Joey were gone from the compound their sister was sealed - apparently against her will. Joey said he talked to her on the phone shortly before her death and gathered as much. She committed suicide b/c of the sealing.

[rissmeek]

Feb 23, 2010 14:59:02 GMT -5 Nickifan said:

It's hard for me to remember that Joey got out of Juniper Creek on a football scholarship and stardom, and then ended up back at the compound because he got messed up with alcohol addiction. Apparantly Bill thinks less of him for that.

There are so many unanswered "things" with Bill's JP clan -

1. Why was Wanda sealed to Joey? Was it a love match, or was it all Joey could handle when he was in recovery? Now that we know Wanda is JJ's sister, is there more to it than that?
.

Wanda, somehow, found out that Joey was on the skids because of his drug problem. She went and picked him up and help to dry him out. I want to say that their first child, the one that died, might have been conceived out of wedlock.