All three wives are questioning...

[miceelf]

JJ77 brought up a great point in another thread, but I was afraid I'd get too far off topic there

All three wives are starting to question Bill and confront him.

Barb is trying to be a good wife, as she grew up understanding how to be a good LDS wife. But she is questioning the whole principle of polygamy, and Bill's commitment to the family he already has -- instead of Bill's apparent commitment to chasing other skirts and chasing his ambition to have bigger and better businesses and now to be in politics.

Nicki is questioning how she was brought up, and realizing how messed up it was. She was put in the Joy Book and married off at 15 and no one on the compound found that bizarre -- but when it was going to happen to her own daughter, she couldn't stand for it. Her brother and Wanda and her mother are all mentally unbalanced, and they were brought up in the same environment. She is telling Bill that she knows she is "damaged" and I can't remember exactly what she said to Alby on the phone, but I think it was something like the way they were brought up twisted them both. Is she seeing Bill as "damaged" too?

Margie is realizing she had a terrible childhood, married Bill at a very early age so she could have an instant family, and now she wants some independence -- a chance to be her own person, have her own sense of accomplishment and self-worth -- and Bill keeps squashing that, over and over.

[JJ77]

I think that Barb is driven by her beleifs and in following Bill felt thats what she was doing. Now though, I think she is (finally!) begining to question Bills motivations - are they really based on their faith or just his desires ?

Nicki I think is (atleast on some level) assessing not only he rpast but her present and wondering how much differnce ther eis between her father and Bill's treatment of her.

Margene, IMO, is finding her own voice, self worth and confidence. I dont think she wants independance in the form of leaving the marriage, I think she wants to feel equal in the marriage. She wants to know that her voice is being heard, that her feelings ar being considered and that she's not just being disregarded as he has been in the past.


The thing that really gets me about this is that even though all the wives are questioning - they're not really voicing those feelings to each other. I said this in another thread as well...
but basically it's as if they're practicing their own form of "perfect obedience" in front of each other. IOW's Putting up a "solid" front for the benefit of each other when it's not the case for any of them. Margene may be the exception, but only to a point.

[JJ77]

miceelf saw this posted on another thread thought i'd bring it over here:

You are right, all three are having doubts and questioning Bill -- for different reasons, though, so I wonder if they would really listen and understand each other and not judge each other if they got together on it?

No, I dont think it will happen. I think it should happen , but doubt it will.

Barb would feel like she wasn't "holding things together" enough if all the things they're questioning were openly brought to the table.

Nicki would get defensive and chastise the other wives in her twisted way of defending herself.

Margene, may be open the only one I see as "open' to this type of discussion... and maybe only because she constantly needs to be validated.

So it's probably not realistic that they'll sit down and come out with all the things they're each feeling & become a united front- unless they can find a common denominator - fears about "coming out" , or maybe their all being against the move to bill's "big house" ?

[BigLoveRocks!]

Barb said something interesting last season to Anna, about the way things are done in their marriage... There is a certain chain of command...

All issues are brought to Barb, Barb being the first wife decides to bring them to Bill's attention or not...

This suggests to me (whether it is an FLDS or and LDS thing I'm unsure) that women are not equal to the men in their marriage. This is true for a LOT of religious groups, even those not involved in polygamy.

The women are supposed to OBEY THEIR MASTER like a dog... Given how Bill has reacted to Marilyn, it becomes even more obvious... Not only that... The wives (dogs) are supposed to accept whatever he says and does and not think twice, while he takes his time with forgiveness making them sweat it out when they've done something wrong.

So yes, I think all 3 wives are noticing this aspect of the relationship as well and also realizing this is not the way normal couples live their lives.

[JJ77]

I was just reading a really interesting article about the perceived subservience of some LDS women - something that you touched on BLR.
"mormon women, Prozac & Therapy" -witten by Kent Ponder, Ph.D.
packham.n4m.org/prozac.htm

While I could see how some LDS women would take offfense to parts of the article, I think it's important to note that the author makes clear he is refrring to the women that the teachings of LDS does not fit. IOW's the teachings are "one size fits all" and not all women are alike.

Basically though the article states that " From childhood, the LDS female is thoroughly trained to be, in behavior and thought, submissive to a long and imposing list of males with authority linking directly to God. "

interesting stuff , give it a read .

As a non-LDS woman I find this way of thinking extremely sexist and demeaning to women. However, I also think that part of every womans basic rights shoudl the right to choose - and so for women who choose to beleive this I hold no feminist grudge. lol

I just personally have a hard time swallowing it.
I also have a hard time understanding some of the women on this hsow though, and i think the artile shed some light in that area - as in why Bill's wives would have such a hard time confronting / questioning him openly, or even amoung themselves. (Barb and Nicki especially)

[BigLoveRocks!]

Feb 20, 2010 17:58:48 GMT -5 JJ77 said:

I was just reading a really interesting article about the perceived subservience of some LDS women - something that you touched on BLR.
"mormon women, Prozac & Therapy" -witten by Kent Ponder, Ph.D.
packham.n4m.org/prozac.htm

While I could see how some LDS women would take offfense to parts of the article, I think it's important to note that the author makes clear he is refrring to the women that the teachings of LDS does not fit. IOW's the teachings are "one size fits all" and not all women are alike.

Basically though the article states that " From childhood, the LDS female is thoroughly trained to be, in behavior and thought, submissive to a long and imposing list of males with authority linking directly to God. "

interesting stuff , give it a read .

As a non-LDS woman I find this way of thinking extremely sexist and demeaning to women. However, I also think that part of every womans basic rights shoudl the right to choose - and so for women who choose to beleive this I hold no feminist grudge. lol

I just personally have a hard time swallowing it.
I also have a hard time understanding some of the women on this hsow though, and i think the artile shed some light in that area - as in why Bill's wives would have such a hard time confronting / questioning him openly, or even amoung themselves. (Barb and Nicki especially)

WOW is all I can say lol!

[JJ77]

WOW is all I can say lol!

I take it you read the article then?

[BigLoveRocks!]

Feb 21, 2010 6:54:36 GMT -5 JJ77 said:

WOW is all I can say lol!

I take it you read the article then?

LOL YES!!!

It took me a while to get all the way through it, but yes... And I agree with you 100%!

[zoar]

I also read the article but it strikes me as rather odd that the person who says he is LDS, doe not seem to be familiar with this scripture from the Doctrine and Covenants that would be very applicable to the issues he has raised. It has some sobering consequences for men who think they can use their priesthood authority to force compliance.

"Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?
Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson--

That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.

That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.

We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.

Hence many are called, but few are chosen.

No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile--

Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;