Did I miss something????

[farscape1]

When did Bill exile Ben?

I remember Ben telling Bill that he thought it would be good to get out of the house for a couple days and then Bill telling him he was thinking the same thing.

How is that throwing him out of the house?

And the scene when Bill throws his father out of the casino (at least Bill got to him before he could pee on the black jack table). Lois rushing to the guy who would have killed her unless she offered him money. The showing of true love nearly brought a tear to my eye.

I gotta love Joey though. I love how a guy who commits murder (albeit one that improved the world) can get all high and mighty and not even give his brother the benefit of the doubt. The same Joey who is now in the pocket of JJ in order to save his own butt. Hey when is Joey going to get around to killing his father. Roman needs a kindred spirit to join him in hell.

I love how everyone now is telling Bill to get over it. Yeah, it's been a whole week since he found out his son and his wife (well one of the three) were developing a remake of Oedipus Rex. Hey, no biggie.

And to top it all off, Ben wants his father to apologize to him! LOL! Ben was lucky he didn't take a fist to the face.

Did they rewrite some of the episodes and not tell me???

I love this show but this past episode made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[iheartbiglove]

Feb 8, 2010 2:55:34 GMT -5 farscape1 said:

When did Bill exile Ben?

I remember Ben telling Bill that he thought it would be good to get out of the house for a couple days and then Bill telling him he was thinking the same thing.

How is that throwing him out of the house?

And the scene when Bill throws his father out of the casino (at least Bill got to him before he could pee on the black jack table). Lois rushing to the guy who would have killed her unless she offered him money. The showing of true love nearly brought a tear to my eye.

I gotta love Joey though. I love how a guy who commits murder (albeit one that improved the world) can get all high and mighty and not even give his brother the benefit of the doubt. The same Joey who is now in the pocket of JJ in order to save his own butt. Hey when is Joey going to get around to killing his father. Roman needs a kindred spirit to join him in hell.

I love how everyone now is telling Bill to get over it. Yeah, it's been a whole week since he found out his son and his wife (well one of the three) were developing a remake of Oedipus Rex. Hey, no biggie.

And to top it all off, Ben wants his father to apologize to him! LOL! Ben was lucky he didn't take a fist to the face.

Did they rewrite some of the episodes and not tell me???

I love this show but this past episode made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

no you got it right.

[bridget]

I think it's complicated. Bill may or may not have intended to exile Ben, but Bill was clearly asking Ben to leave in Episode 38. What teenage boy isn't going to take that as exile, especially if he is already feeling conflicting emotions over his own feelings and actions?

Also, it's true that what Ben and Margene did was really wrong. It's also true that Margene needs to be held responsible. It's not true that a father gets to blame his own son for a situation that was created by adults. That is where Bill went wrong here.

Margene did the right thing last season when she told Ben he needed to get over his feelings because they were not something that could be acted on. She messed up by letting her own emotions get in the way, but as this is something that has been seen over and over and over on the compound (hence the existence of the 'lost boys' phenomenon), it isn't exactly something that should be shocking to Bill. He probably should have predicted the possibility given their 20+ year age gap.

If Bill had been more engaged in the first place, perhaps Margene could have discussed this situation with him last season instead of waiting until something bad happened. I have step children myself, one of whom has expressed a crush before. He is a lot younger so it probably meant nothing, but I had no issue with telling my husband, "This is what happened with your son."

Why has a situation been created that is extremely complicated at best, and then exacerbated by secrets? Bill is the husband in a patriarchal family. That means he has ultimate responsibility by it's own design. He should have been there for all of his wives to confide in rather than creating a culture of fear. They all fear the consequences of being honest so they all end up in clusterf***s on a regular basis.

What needs to happen is the air needs to be cleared. Ben needs to be told that his feelings are understandable but dwelling on this is unacceptable. He needs to be told by Bill that Bill is sorry for asking him to leave and he needs to hear the message that he is a valued part of the family.

Everyone else needs to be able to speak honestly about their feelings no matter what. Barb may be developing feelings for Tommy. Well guess what? She works one on one with him closely, and is going through an emotionally difficult time. She needs to be able to tell her husband that she is dealing with this.

Poor Nicki should have been able to tell her husband she was unsure about having another baby two seasons ago without fearing reprisals. She should have been able to say that he put her in a difficult position and now she has developed a connection to her boss. She should have been able to bring this to light.

All of this could easily be fixed with just a little bit of communication, and it makes me really angry on behalf of all the characters to see the finger pointing happening.

Sorry, I think this veered a little OT and it definitely got very long, but I hope what I am trying to say comes through the mess!

Communication!

[liz3564]

Excellent analysis, Bridget! ;D


Amen to communication!

[liz3564]

When did Bill exile Ben?

I remember Ben telling Bill that he thought it would be good to get out of the house for a couple days and then Bill telling him he was thinking the same thing.

How is that throwing him out of the house?

I think it had more to do with the finality of Bill's tone and how he just shut the door. Ben was hesitantly packing. Bill walked in, and saw Ben packing. Ben slightly stammers and says, "I just thought maybe I should leave for a while."

I think he really wanted Bill to tell him to stay. But Bill resolutely just said, "I was thinking the same thing." He didn't even look back at Ben...just walked out the door.

I can see how Ben would take that as Bill really wanting him out.

I do, however, think that Ben was unreasonable in not being willing to even listen to Bill when he was trying to explain that he really did only want Ben to leave for a few days.

[kambria]

Feb 8, 2010 2:55:34 GMT -5 farscape1 said:

When did Bill exile Ben?

I remember Ben telling Bill that he thought it would be good to get out of the house for a couple days and then Bill telling him he was thinking the same thing.

How is that throwing him out of the house?

And the scene when Bill throws his father out of the casino (at least Bill got to him before he could pee on the black jack table). Lois rushing to the guy who would have killed her unless she offered him money. The showing of true love nearly brought a tear to my eye.

I gotta love Joey though. I love how a guy who commits murder (albeit one that improved the world) can get all high and mighty and not even give his brother the benefit of the doubt. The same Joey who is now in the pocket of JJ in order to save his own butt. Hey when is Joey going to get around to killing his father. Roman needs a kindred spirit to join him in hell.

I love how everyone now is telling Bill to get over it. Yeah, it's been a whole week since he found out his son and his wife (well one of the three) were developing a remake of Oedipus Rex. Hey, no biggie.

And to top it all off, Ben wants his father to apologize to him! LOL! Ben was lucky he didn't take a fist to the face.

Did they rewrite some of the episodes and not tell me???

I love this show but this past episode made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Farscape, you seem to be missing the emotional aspect of all of these characters!

[farscape1]

[quote author=kambria
Farscape, you seem to be missing the emotional aspect of all of these characters!
[/quote]

i am not missing the emotional aspect of all these characters.

how did bill react when he first learned of the kiss and letter? did he fly off the handle and throw ben and margene out??? no he sat them both down and then gave them the chance to explain it themselves.

what did ben and margene do??? they lied to his face.

margene then decides to confess to bill moments before he had to go onstage at the rally. really nice touch margene.

so did you people really think that if bill was more open that margene would have said "bill, it's no big deal but i have the hots for your son" i don't think so.

and you are forgetting how marge lied to barb.

so i think the communication failed on marge's end first.

and back to ben packing. again, you have no idea what bill was going to say to ben if he didn't see him packing. bill's response was one of great restraint.

again, how would you feel if your spouse and child were doing stuff behind your back and lied about it?

ben's almost 18. i think spending a few days out of the house is a good idea. unless he plans on living at home for he rest of his life.

ben acts like he's 12. he needs to grow up.

so i think it is some of you that are missing the emotional aspect of the characters...mainly bill's.

operating a couple home plus stores, opening a casino, his best friend resigning to save them all, his dysfunctional family on the compound, running for state senate...and last but not least...having his wife and son betray him.

cut the guy some slack.

oh and i forgot, having to rescue his sister-in-law's adopted kid, almost being murdered by hollis greene, trying to get a letter that would validate their religion...etc...

the most ben had to worry about was changing his underwear each morning and dreaming about different ways to get it on with margene.

and margene has had everything provided to her so she could start her business and flirt (kiss and who knows what she'll do next) with her husbands son. then lie to both her husband and the mother of said son.

[ragnarockette]

I think Ben wants to believe that his father exiled him.

I thought Bill acted terribly, but it isn't terribly uncommon for parents to ask their kids to move out. I think Margene is acting absurdly. She's the adult and the mother. The only reason Bill didn't throw her out too I think is because he's finally begun to realize how out-of-touch he's become with his family.

[biglovegirl]

We shouldn't have to take into account all that bill is "going through" as everything bill is "going through" is of his own doing. He asked to run for state senate. He asked to have three wives. He asked to have several home plus stores. He's asked for all of this. It's not his son's problem that Bill is in way over his head. I really have hardly any sympathy for bill's plight. He could have stopped all of this if he had wanted to- the wives, the relations with the polygamous communities, the stores, the running for senate, everything- but he selfishly wanted it all and wanted everyone to back *him*. Bill has made his bed and now he must lie in it. So sorry, friend. Unfortunately, it's costing him his family. That's the price he's paying for all of his so dearly desired fame and glory.

[farscape1]

Feb 8, 2010 19:37:34 GMT -5 biglovegirl said:

We shouldn't have to take into account all that bill is "going through" as everything bill is "going through" is of his own doing. He asked to run for state senate. He asked to have three wives. He asked to have several home plus stores. He's asked for all of this. It's not his son's problem that Bill is in way over his head. I really have hardly any sympathy for bill's plight. He could have stopped all of this if he had wanted to- the wives, the relations with the polygamous communities, the stores, the running for senate, everything- but he selfishly wanted it all and wanted everyone to back *him*. Bill has made his bed and now he must lie in it. So sorry, friend. Unfortunately, it's costing him his family. That's the price he's paying for all of his so dearly desired fame and glory.

wait a minute. i'm not feeling sorry for anybody. i'm just pointing out that blaming bill for how he reacted to finding out his wife and son had feelings for each other is ridiculous.

you are right, if bill never got involved in polygamy, none of this would have happened. then again, there would be no show either.

however, since you feel that way about bill then why do you (and others) feel for ben and margene. their troubles are their own fault as well (more so margene than ben).

can you answer that "friend"?

[biglovegirl]

Oh I wasn't calling you "friend", I was referring to Bill. lol. Sorry if it came across that way.

[bridget]

I guess I think if Bill had been more open WAY sooner, it probably would never have gotten to, "I have the hots for your son" because she could have said, "Your son wrote me a love letter" or "Gosh our ages are so close we need to watch this situation because he is bound to develop a crush..."

I am not suggesting that Margene isn't responsible for her own actions because she is. But the culture of lies and deceit in that household is nuts. Everyone is afraid of everyone elses reaction to the little things and they never come out until they are big things.

I just think that's a shame. On all sides.

[BigLoveRocks!]

I agree with you on everything Bridget! Well said!

[JJ77]

I think if ppl are seeming to ignore Bil's emotions, or are hesistant to "cut him some slack" it's because Bill doesnt cut anyone else slack. IMO, he simply expects everyone around him to support him, fight for his cause, etc regardless of what is goin on with them, or how they feel about the cause or means to get there... in short, he is selfish.
One of his favorite phrases seems to be " we'll deal with this later" and he seems to want to hear no more from his wives than "I'm on it!". So as much as he may justify this with the fact he's buisy & doing what he's doing for his family or due to his beleifs - he lost touch with both those things a long time ago.

[miceelf]

From very first episodes, there were hints that there would be problems with Margie and Ben. Margie knew from the beginning that she had the role of the cute, young, sexpot wife. She was so loud when she and Bill were in bed that everyone could hear it if they happened to be in the backyard. Hey, passion in the sack is a great thing, but really inappropriate for young children to be exposed to it -- and classless and tacky to subject the rest of your family to it, too.

Margie would come over to Barb's house for family breakfast dressed in little shorty baby-doll nighties -- not cool in front of the kids. Especially not in front of a teen-aged stepson who is battling raging hormones anyway. She tried to get Bill's attention, maybe liked that she made Barb and Nikki feel jealous and less attractive, and really enjoyed the attention she got from Ben -- especially when she was wrestling playfully with him, etc. Barb tried to tell her to tone it down, but Margie acted like she was clueless.

Given the way she was raised, I understand why she is so desperate for love and to be the center of attention. But her behavior was still way out of line. Bill should have been paying more attention and nipped that nonsense in the bud a lonnnnnnnng time ago.

Ben had a crush -- understandably. And he seems to still have feelings for her, but he knows they are wrong and he's not acting on them. Margie's the one with impulse control. Ben's been remarkably mature in handling this whole thing -- even willing to take the blame when it certainly wasn't all his fault. I think one of the best things Bill said in this last episode is that he asks his wives all the time to overcome their jealousies, and that he needed to do that too. But...the situation is a bit different. Bill is SUPPOSED (in this messed up family relationship) to be a loving husband to all three of the women. Ben is his son, and Margie's step-son, and nothing should have ever happened between them.