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Post by aliensummer on Mar 22, 2011 19:31:22 GMT -5
From Alien: And I know that Margene's kids have Nicki and Barb and they're supposed to view them as their mom's too, but it's obvious they know who their real mom is. They live in a house with Margene, they call her mom (not "Mother Margene"), she tucks them into bed at night, sleeps in the bed that they would crawl into when they have nightmares, makes breakfast for them every morning, etc. That's the kid's routine, and they know that that's their mom.
Marge may come home to find that her kids are calling Nikki mom. The boys may have bonded with Marge and will continue to want her love. Even abused children will choose their abusive parent over a loving foster or other substitute parent. Nell is just a baby. She may bond with Nikki and never develop a mother/child relationship with Marge. Withay makes a good point that Margene's children may be better off without her if the other option is Marge being there to raise them but always sulking and feeling sorry for herself and resenting them for tying her down. I just want to clarify because I'm not sure I'm fully being understood here. My beef isn't with Margene going on missions. My beef is with her going on two missions that are longer than a month in less than a year after her husbands death. If this was done two years later, I probably wouldn't mind as much, but this is less than a year later. At the very least she could give her kids some of her time and make sure they're doing alright, and not just pop in and out of their lives after they lost their father. And really, if Margene needed to do something to feel important during that year, she could've volunteered in her community. Poverty exists everywhere, not just South America.
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Post by writerwannabe on Mar 22, 2011 22:33:04 GMT -5
Just rewatched the final episode. What Margene actually says before she leaves on her second trip is "I'll be back in THREE MONTHS.'' In her blog she talks about going to Colorado and numerous visits to Portland, apparently unrelated to mission.
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Post by duets on Mar 22, 2011 22:44:50 GMT -5
Nope. The actress has short hair. She just stopped wearing the wig. But I remember an earlier episode in the first or second season, Lois told Sarah that she cut her hair short in mourning for her daughter. Maybe the character cut her hair in mourning for Bill. Kathy, Marge's haircut happened prior to Bill's death.
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Post by withay on Mar 22, 2011 23:45:09 GMT -5
As I said before, I think that the best choice would have been for Margene to stay home with her children, at least for a while. But we also have to look at the timing restrictions that the writers were under. In real life, Margene probably would have waited to go on her missions. But the writers wanted to give us a sort of epilogue...how the family was doing "later". Eleven months was just about the right time to do that. The shock and raw grief were gone. Sarah's baby's blessing would be a time when everyone would sort of naturally come together. Sarah was not PG (as far as we knew) when Bill died. Eleven months is long enough to conceive and have a baby. Twelve months would not really work because of the "anniversary" angle...too sad. I think the time just fit in the storyline.
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Post by writerwannabe on Mar 23, 2011 10:36:15 GMT -5
After brooding over Margene and her jaunts for several days, I've come to terms with it for me.
Thinking back over the previous years, I realized that Margene was never cut out to be a mother and never took much pleasure in it. In the prequel where they are all living together in the same house, Bill comes home to find Margene crying holding her baby who is crying. He says, hon, you've got to set an example for him. Then he takes the baby away from her and gives it to Nikki. Granted, I would be crying too if I had a 9 month old and I was pregnant, but in that scene Marge seems like she doesn't have a clue about what to do with a crying baby.
After the move to Sandy we lots of scenes of Margene moping around her house while the children crayoned on the walls, sat in front of the TV, cried in the playpen. Margene always wanted the chance to get away from the kids, remember how badly she wanted to go with Bill on the Weeber gaming trip? Again, I don't blame her for wanting a break, but it's just the overall impression that the children were never a source of great pleasure and enjoyment for her.
Margene said she loved her children more than life itself, but I suspect that love in Margene's mind is some emotional feeling, not the day to day actions and sacrifices for the benefit of someone else.
So I'm OK with the fact that she is basically leaving them for Barb and Nikki to raise. Lot's of grandparents are raising their grandchildren these days because a teenage mother couldn't handle the responsibility. Worse things could happen to kids.
BTW, it's not just humans who do this. For a while I fostered homeless cats. Once I had two pregnant mom kitties, one a teenager (who was a Persian beauty!) and one plain old grey house cat who had obviously had several litters. Both of the litters were born about a week apart. Mommacat, the grey, stayed in her box with the kittens, coming out only to eat, drink, and use the box. She groomed her kitties and purred loudly while they nursed. Her kitties were plumb and quiet. Persian beauty rarely stayed with her kittens. She would nurse them and then go somewhere else to sleep. Her kitties could be heard crying loudly and scratching at the edges of the box trying to find her. They were dirty and skinny. After a week or so of this Momma cat had had it. She marched herself over to Persian's box, picked up each kitten one by one, and deposited them back in her box. She cleaned them up and fed them. Quickly they were as strong, healthy, and content as her own kittens. Persian never went looking for her kittens and showed absolutely no interest in getting them back. I whisked her off the the vet to be spayed, and she lived happily ever after as a single, child-free beauty.
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Post by marigoldmama on Mar 23, 2011 14:02:48 GMT -5
I want to know Who is really watching those kids day in and day out.
I'm going to guess that Barb is working and she has wanted to get her career back on track and move forward. I'm sure she is doing that. They will need money, even with a nice insurance policy. Money goes quickly.
Nicki? Nicki is the most logical "mother" to take over Margene's kids. She is well trained in running a home and a large family. She does not have any real job training or skills. She is the logical choice between Barb and Nicki.
I thought we all thought Nicki was beyond mean and nuts this season. Everyone hated her. We all thought she had all sorts of psychiatric issues. She certainly displayed poor, extremely poor, parenting in yelling at CaraLynn like that and saying those horrid things. We could make a list of how messed up Nicki is... Is this a good plan for Margene's kids?
During the episode with the wills, even Margene didn't want the kids to go to Nicki. Now?
Margene got married very young and obviously had children young and she's feeling trapped and smoothered and wants to "explore" the wonderful world out there. I get that. But she made her choices...perhaps getting married at 16 was not the best choice? But while she is traveling and doing a mission, her children are the ones who miss Mommy and who suffer for that. Mommy Nicki is not the woman who nursed them and bathed them and fed them and loved them. It was Margene. There is a bond there between mother and child and that is a good thing. Children have a deep attachment to their mother and that is how they learn to love and trust others. Your first bond with your mother is very important in a child's development. You don't want to mess withat that.
The writers portrayed it "Margene comes into her own". In my opinion, this was a very Margene thing to do...impulsive with good intentions behind it but not thinking it out very well.
Or does Margene feel that she is so unimportant to her children that they won't miss her? If she really feels that way, that is really really sad.
Margene is a nice young woman and I'm glad she is finding herself but at what cost to her children? She can get involved locally and still be a mommy at home. When the kids are older...then it is her time to spread her wings a bit. Now? I'm sorry, I can't agree with that.
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Post by corajack on Mar 23, 2011 17:42:47 GMT -5
Have any of you watched the movie Hideous Kinky with Kate Winslet? She takes her kids on a "freedom" trip after a failed marriage and the kids (IMHO) really get screwed up and face some very dangerous circumstances. However, after doing some research on what Margie is doing there are these cruises that allow children. Maybe as her kids get older she will take them with her.
But my opinion is that the kids need to be at home in a structured environment right now. I can't fault Margie for leaving. She was telling Bill "I've made so many false starts" and then Bill says something like "That's just because you were so young". I think at that point when Bill finds the passport Margie had one foot out the door. She was going to do it anyway.
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Post by duets on Mar 23, 2011 18:38:59 GMT -5
Marigoldmama, I feel the same way as to who is watching those kiddos. While Nickie has her faults & doesn't appear to have much of a clue as to how to be a Loving Mother, I'm hoping that she has the ability to find some parenting classes somewhere, or maybe get some help from the sisterwives @ the compound, when things get out of control for her. One thing we can count on, Nickie isn't going to seek out Rhonda for any help w/taking care of the kiddo, Corajack, I agree that Margene's mind was made up to go on the cruise(s), as she was in the process of getting a passport complete, regardless of what happened. Everyone deals w/grief differently, but there's no way I could just walk off & leave my (our) kids to another anybody [Mom, or not]. It just ain't right,
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Post by marigoldmama on Mar 23, 2011 18:53:26 GMT -5
Nicki is very responsible and the children will be fed on time, clean and all that stuff.
But Nicki is not an emotionally well person at all. I don't think I'd leavy my kids in her care full time.
Yes, i agree, Margene had one foot out the door before Bill died. i think he knew Margene well and realized her troubled soul.
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Post by aliensummer on Mar 23, 2011 20:35:14 GMT -5
Yes, i agree, Margene had one foot out the door before Bill died. i think he knew Margene well and realized her troubled soul. But if Bill really realized that, why was he trying to have another child with her? Wasn't that even brought up a second time in the scene where he asks her about the passport?
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Post by withay on Mar 23, 2011 23:18:12 GMT -5
Yes, i agree, Margene had one foot out the door before Bill died. i think he knew Margene well and realized her troubled soul. But if Bill really realized that, why was he trying to have another child with her? Wasn't that even brought up a second time in the scene where he asks her about the passport? Because he thought another infant would tie her to him even more. Just Bill being selfish again.
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Post by duets on Mar 23, 2011 23:32:33 GMT -5
Because he thought another infant would tie her to him even more. Just Bill being selfish again. Withay, in this specific scene, where Bill & Margene were discussing this, there was a response Marg said to Bill re: something about even if another baby comes into the pic, it wouldn't alter her traveling plans.... OR something like that, it was like the last sentence in the scene, as I recall. I don't remember exactly what she said, I gotta go watch that part again. Withay, can you recall that?
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Post by withay on Mar 23, 2011 23:43:35 GMT -5
Because he thought another infant would tie her to him even more. Just Bill being selfish again. Withay, in this specific scene, where Bill & Margene were discussing this, there was a response Marg said to Bill re: something about even if another baby comes into the pic, it wouldn't alter her traveling plans.... OR something like that, it was like the last sentence in the scene, as I recall. I don't remember exactly what she said, I gotta go watch that part again. Withay, can you recall that? No, I don't remember anything like that at all.
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Post by nychic on Mar 23, 2011 23:54:45 GMT -5
The thing is. Margene's children have grown up with Barb and Nicki AS MOM. Almost interchangeable at times. So the relationships with the kids and the sisterwives/mom's are already in place and bonded. I can absolutly see the validity of her going on a 6 week mission at some point...we dont know how soon after Bill's funeral, it might have been 9.5 months after. She did'nt go on a pleasure cruise or a holiday, she went on a mission. As has been pointed out, mothers in the military go for far longer times. Also, after watching today. Bill told Nicki to ease up on her that she should go and give what was in her heart. So Nicki probalby was somewhat more supportive after that. +1 karma for you. You said exactly what i was thinking but couldnt put into words. lol
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Post by aliensummer on Mar 24, 2011 6:10:07 GMT -5
But if Bill really realized that, why was he trying to have another child with her? Wasn't that even brought up a second time in the scene where he asks her about the passport? Because he thought another infant would tie her to him even more. Just Bill being selfish again. Which is why I think a part of Bill really didn't support her. If Margene was pregnant, she wouldn't have been able to go on the mission until after the pregnancy (even if she wanted to go, they wouldn't have accepted her application), which would give him at least nine months to try and subtly change her mind. I think Bill realized that it was what Margene wanted to do, but I don't think he really wanted her to do it. I think he much preferred her being around the house tied to him, but wanted it to appear as though everyone supported Margene's dream. Because in my opinion, if he really supported her, he would've realized that if she's thinking of going away and finding herself, it's probably not the right time to bring a fourth child into the world.
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