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Post by wurks on Mar 1, 2010 21:49:22 GMT -5
Marie Osmond's son is another victim of SSRI dependency. So is Marie actually truth be known.
Anyone like to bet me on that?
The article I read about it said he had been in "therapy" since 2005. Well therapy means he was taking anti-depressants... that's what it means.
What the media won't talk about in almost all of these school shootings and celebrity suicides is the (privacy protected medical records) "prescription drug" medical profile that lead up to their psychological crisis, but if you look a little bit deeper it's always there.
It usually happens when they haven't taken their meds or try to quit or go off without serious supervision. Or like was mentioned above, the prescription needed to be ramped up... again.
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Post by BigLoveRocks! on Mar 1, 2010 22:05:17 GMT -5
It is scary.
I have had friends who were just a little depressed go in, start taking Lexapro or something similar... After 8 weeks or 10 weeks or whatever they try going off the meds... One of the friends became a cutter trying to come down from them, one attempted suicide and the other just ran back to the doctor and got a script for a larger dose and has been doing that for years. Now that particular friend has gone through like all the different types of SSRI's and nothing is working and she is more depressed than ever before.
I know there are people who are really sick that need meds. Bipolar people, schizophrenic people etc... They really do need their meds. SSRI's though to me, are a big money making scheme.
They make you feel better for a while, but eventually you can't function without them.
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Post by wurks on Mar 1, 2010 22:18:27 GMT -5
I researched the topic a lot several years ago and pretty much convinced myself that they were "bad medicine".. (to coin a phrase) lol
But not long ago I caught a short segment on Coast to Coast Am .. some Dr. professional who had done extensive research and concluded that the mainstream ssri drugs in fact worked no better than a placebo, and the side effects were worse than horrific.
But hey don't take my word for it ... just google it and start reading. "educate yourself" .com. lol
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ladykc
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by ladykc on Mar 1, 2010 23:20:47 GMT -5
Remember Barb went to get a social work degree so she would know!
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Post by wurks on Mar 1, 2010 23:34:36 GMT -5
Yep, those social workers know everything. That's why they all hate Rush Limbaugh.
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Post by marigoldmama on Mar 2, 2010 12:47:32 GMT -5
I tend to agree. I certainly don't know everyone's medical history but it does seem that for many people, medication might add to the problem or create more problems. Medication is really a last resort, not the first thing to try. My neighbor across the street (the ones that I though were polygamists but turned out they were not!) was on anti-depressants and then tried to kill himself. The ambulance was called and he was hospitalized for a month and almost died. My husband said "So much for the anti-depressants helping him" All medications need to be used with much caution. The side affects are often worse than what you went in for.
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dsc6
Junior Member
Posts: 90
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Post by dsc6 on Mar 4, 2010 3:54:54 GMT -5
I am carefully going to modulate my response to this anti-antidepressant sub-thread.
There are lay people who get on these bandwagons, and who believe they are educated, but 'googling' and personal anecdotes do not an education make.
For any of you who might be suffering from depression--as in: diagnosed as having mild/moderate/severe clinical depression--DO NOT LISTEN TO THESE PEOPLE! Your life may depend on that.
Depression is a disorder that directly affects the anatomy and physiology of the brain. Getting treatment is very important, because the longer you are untreated, the more 'fixed' the disorder becomes and the harder it is to counter. This has been absolutely verified by PET scans, etc. Some peoples brains, after having been absolutely depression-free for AT LEAST ONE YEAR, show good remodeling on PET scan, and can then start a very slow and careful wean off meds (because the receptors have to up-regulate again). However, as with other physical disorders like high blood pressure and diabetes and *you name it*, some people must take medication all their lives in order to be free of this sometimes deadly disease.
Anyone who has been severely depressed and who has had his life returned to him after starting on effective medication, reads the above posts sadly, hoping that no one is swayed by such ignorance. Any SSRI either works for you or it doesn't. You don't have to 'keep increasing the dose' nor are these drugs addicting.
There are a couple of books about depression written for lay people by Peter Kramer, a Harvard-trained psychiatrist. Depression is a serious debilitating condition with its basis in the physical biochemistry and anatomy of the brain. Trauma, physical abuse, emotional trauma/abuse and PTSD cause verifiable and visable changes on PET scans of the brain. Antidepressant medication CAN AND DOES result in remodeling of these changes. Visable and verifiable.
SSRIs may be over-prescribed. That doesn't make SSRIs 'bad'. They are not perfect drugs, however, their adverse effect profiles are much better than earlier anti-depressants. And I'm sure that they will continue to be improved upon. The newer drugs affect both the norepinephrine and serotonin neurotransmittor receptors, which work better for some people.
The comment made by wurks regarding peoples' search for the proverbial dopamine 'rush' is true. But zillions of us do this in one way or another--sports, careers, hobbies, adventurous activities, food, sex, and, yes, legal and illegal drugs. I taught my teenage daughters about this during their preteen years. It's important that one allows oneself to be satisfied by mild 'rushes' and only those obtained in non-harmful ways. Too many people don't have a clue why they do what they do....and therein lies the danger.
I have worked with the extremely critically ill for decades and the first question I ask job applicants is, "Do you like adrenalin rushes? Or do you perceive them as being negative and overly stressful?" My next question is, " Do you get bored out of your skull WITHOUT adrenalin rushes?" Because people who deal with life and death everyday as I do have to LIKE it but not NEED it. I have not needed to get more and more to get my 'fix', as some of you have incorrectly stated. Neurotransmittors are not like cocaine, etc., in that respect, you do not need more and more norepi or serotonin or dopamine for the same effect. Drugs like cocaine and crystal meth screw up the pleasure/reward centers of the brain so badly that forever afterward, nothing else satisfies. PET scans show meth- and cocaine-induced physical, visible, and verifiable changes in the brain, also.
I'm going to stop here. Just remember, a lot of the medical 'info' available on the Web is incorrect.
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Post by BigLoveRocks! on Mar 4, 2010 16:56:01 GMT -5
I am carefully going to modulate my response to this anti-antidepressant sub-thread. There are lay people who get on these bandwagons, and who believe they are educated, but 'googling' and personal anecdotes do not an education make. For any of you who might be suffering from depression--as in: diagnosed as having mild/moderate/severe clinical depression--DO NOT LISTEN TO THESE PEOPLE! Your life may depend on that. Depression is a disorder that directly affects the anatomy and physiology of the brain. Getting treatment is very important, because the longer you are untreated, the more 'fixed' the disorder becomes and the harder it is to counter. This has been absolutely verified by PET scans, etc. Some peoples brains, after having been absolutely depression-free for AT LEAST ONE YEAR, show good remodeling on PET scan, and can then start a very slow and careful wean off meds (because the receptors have to up-regulate again). However, as with other physical disorders like high blood pressure and diabetes and *you name it*, some people must take medication all their lives in order to be free of this sometimes deadly disease. Anyone who has been severely depressed and who has had his life returned to him after starting on effective medication, reads the above posts sadly, hoping that no one is swayed by such ignorance. Any SSRI either works for you or it doesn't. You don't have to 'keep increasing the dose' nor are these drugs addicting. There are a couple of books about depression written for lay people by Peter Kramer, a Harvard-trained psychiatrist. Depression is a serious debilitating condition with its basis in the physical biochemistry and anatomy of the brain. Trauma, physical abuse, emotional trauma/abuse and PTSD cause verifiable and visable changes on PET scans of the brain. Antidepressant medication CAN AND DOES result in remodeling of these changes. Visable and verifiable. SSRIs may be over-prescribed. That doesn't make SSRIs 'bad'. They are not perfect drugs, however, their adverse effect profiles are much better than earlier anti-depressants. And I'm sure that they will continue to be improved upon. The newer drugs affect both the norepinephrine and serotonin neurotransmittor receptors, which work better for some people. The comment made by wurks regarding peoples' search for the proverbial dopamine 'rush' is true. But zillions of us do this in one way or another--sports, careers, hobbies, adventurous activities, food, sex, and, yes, legal and illegal drugs. I taught my teenage daughters about this during their preteen years. It's important that one allows oneself to be satisfied by mild 'rushes' and only those obtained in non-harmful ways. Too many people don't have a clue why they do what they do....and therein lies the danger. I have worked with the extremely critically ill for decades and the first question I ask job applicants is, "Do you like adrenalin rushes? Or do you perceive them as being negative and overly stressful?" My next question is, " Do you get bored out of your skull WITHOUT adrenalin rushes?" Because people who deal with life and death everyday as I do have to LIKE it but not NEED it. I have not needed to get more and more to get my 'fix', as some of you have incorrectly stated. Neurotransmittors are not like cocaine, etc., in that respect, you do not need more and more norepi or serotonin or dopamine for the same effect. Drugs like cocaine and crystal meth screw up the pleasure/reward centers of the brain so badly that forever afterward, nothing else satisfies. PET scans show meth- and cocaine-induced physical, visible, and verifiable changes in the brain, also. I'm going to stop here. Just remember, a lot of the medical 'info' available on the Web is incorrect. I would like to address this situation... First of all, I never gave any advice to anyone or claimed to have gotten my information from websites online. I think some other members may have done some of their research online however. As I mentioned in my posts... Some people genuinely do need their medications. However... It is my personal OPINION that SSRI's (based on my own personal experience in dealing with friends who have taken them) are not a good thing. For some people they work... Some people they don't... It has just been my personal experience with the people in my own life that they don't more often than they do. Obviously if you are dealing with depression you need to seek medical attention immediately. That being said... This is not a medical advice board... This is a message board about a television series with fictitious characters and a place for the fans to share their opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, if we all had the same opinion, we would have nothing to discuss. Now to bring this thread back on topic... I think Barb has a point about the over medicating of people in Utah. It is a statistical fact that women in Utah use depression medications more than women in other states. I think the show was addressing this issue through Barb as well, trying to shed some light on a situation that most don't want to touch with a ten foot pole.
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dsc6
Junior Member
Posts: 90
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Post by dsc6 on Mar 4, 2010 18:52:50 GMT -5
I was blown away by the absolutely wooden expressions on their faces as she was 'outing' away. Poor, poor Barb.
And as much as most people, including me, are despising Bill lately, he sure can be a smooth talker. The way he said, "It's something that needs to be addressed." or something like that.
I think Bill Paxton has a 'sincere voice' he pulls out for comments like that. I know that I always fall for it. Bill Paxton is a very good actor. Doesn't get enough credit for this role.
If I went to Utah, would I as an eastern US-er, notice a certain demeanor among Mormon women? I know that the JC FLDS women are played as almost Stepford-esque.
And what is this keeping sweet thing?
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Post by BigLoveRocks! on Mar 4, 2010 19:51:10 GMT -5
I personally couldn't understand the response Barb received either. She was including herself in the mix, not standing there judging others.
I agree, Bill Paxton is a very good actor.
I think in general (re: keeping sweet) LDS'ers try to follow the whole "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all" rule. They seem to put a lot of emphasis on keeping the peace.
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Post by marigoldmama on Mar 4, 2010 21:02:12 GMT -5
Barn didn't say anything really bad. But as you can see from our own forum here, mental health meds gets a variety of responses. It's a subject area that is really controversial.
I guess the same thing happened to Barb. She had her opinion on the matter, spoke up and got a response she totally did not expect.
I think the women felt attacked? Maybe it's one of those subjects that is very taboo in their area or culture?
I think Barb hit a nerve with the women and no one knew how to respond.
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Post by JJ77 on Mar 5, 2010 2:01:33 GMT -5
I think Barb was trying to both relate to the women of utah ("I'm one of you") and address a serious issue (misuse / over use of meds).
Unfortunately I think she would have done better to keep the two agenda's separate.
I think it came across to the women there as " I use drugs to get it done and i know you do too - b/c we all try to take on too much." Those aren't really assumptions people want made about them whether they are true or not.
I could see how it would be offensive to those who aren't on meds, and how those who are on meds would think she was belittling their very real reasons for taking them. IOW's the woman sitting there who suffers from clinical depression doesn't appreciate the idea that she takes meds just because she wants to be "superwoman". Likewise the women in the audience who have found a way to work it out without meds dont appreciate the assumption they're on them. yk?
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Post by marionj2 on Mar 5, 2010 8:54:05 GMT -5
I agree that Barb was trying to relate to the women and address a serious issue. However, even as she explained it, she underestimated the need to be perfect, which means that you cannot admit to needing help, whether from your husband or from medication.
And you had to suspect that before Barb started her little talk, she had medicated herself a little...
About the comment about someone attempting suicide after taking anti-depressants, I understand that occasionally happens. Someone who is virtually paralyzed from depression, when they start to come out of it on medication, finds the energy to do something about it, and sometimes that something is to try to end it. I'm glad your neighbor survived, mgm, and I hope he's doing better now.
I'm not a big fan of medication, but sometimes it's the solution. The important thing is that depressed people should get help, which is hard when you don't want to get out of bed.
Sorry - off topic again.
The point about that story line, I think, was that it's a circle - these women (and they are mostly women) take meds to live up to being perfect, but can't admit to it because taking meds means they're not perfect. That's a tough ideal to live up to.
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dsc6
Junior Member
Posts: 90
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Post by dsc6 on Mar 5, 2010 17:47:25 GMT -5
Marion, you hit the nail on the head regarging their response. A real double whammy.
You are correct regarding the black-box warning on SSRIs. In most people, their energy starts to return slightly before they begin to be antidepressed. So, in some people, being more energized while being seriously depressed gives them the energy to 'listen' to their depression and kill themselves. In this small cohort of patients, this period of energized depression ends when the antidepressant effect occurs.
This is particularly a problem with these medications being prescribed by every GP out there, with neither the training nor the ability to closely follow-up the patient that is necessary when prescribing these drugs.
That being said, it is VITAL to remember that many, many more depressed patients kill themselved due to untreated depression than due to SSRI-induced energized depression. Every psychiatrist familiar with high-quality research results will tell you that, and there is alot of consternation in the field because of so many laypeople believing , incorrectly that 'SSRIs will kill you'. Not all research that is done in this world is of a quality that conclusions should be drawn from it. Evaluating research studies, and their results, is one of the things docs learn in all those years of schooling and residency....
<that thing about the baby and the bath water...>
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Post by withay on Mar 6, 2010 1:12:01 GMT -5
dsc6, Marion, Thanks for the more level-headed responses to the anti-anti-depressant rants. Yes, many people take them for the wrong reasons. But for others, they may save their lives.
I suffered for years with horrible depression and had tried the "old" anti-depressants, talk therapy, etc. About 12 years ago I was put on one of the SSRIs and it has made a huge difference. I take the same medication in the same dosage with the same result as I began with. For me, a small, steady dose has chnaged my life. With ANY medication, one can find some horror stories of side effects, some magical results and some no change. I think you have to make the decision for yourself.
And Wurks, many people are in therapy that are not taking medications. Unless the therapist is an MD, they are not licensed to prescribe medication. I don't think it is reasonable to assume that Marie Osmond's child was taking anti-depressants. Maybe he was; maybe he was not. What is obvious is that he was deeply troubled and his family has suffered a tragedy. Marie has publicly stated that when she was having depression problems, her Dr gave her anti-depressants but she stopped taking them after a few weeks because she did not like how they made her feel.
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