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Post by adorabella on Mar 21, 2011 23:03:54 GMT -5
with that Goji juice business with Pam. I can't believe the sister wives weren't upset with Margene for having some small part in Carl going crazy, but it had to end so I won't be too upset that this wasn't resolved.
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Post by writerwannabe on Mar 21, 2011 23:13:22 GMT -5
Since there is already a war on a couple of other threads about whether Margene's cruises-for-causes are a positive or negative sign for her character, we can use this thread to think about Margene's relationship with Pam.
Margene did not appear to get it at all when Pam told her about Carl's on-going break down and their separation. She hugged her, but the look on her face was more like "ick, get me out of here."
Let's assume that Carl killed himself after he killed Bill. Did Margene reach out to Pam. Did she ever ask herself if getting Pam involved with Gogi contributed to Carl's depression. Did she wonder if she could have handled it differently when Carl came to the Gogi sales meeting?
Does Margene ever, EVER, think about anything she does?
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Post by withay on Mar 21, 2011 23:47:38 GMT -5
I think Margene did think about having got Pam involved with the Goji business. She even tried to help Pam out by giving her some money and had promised more. I don't think Margene or Bill were responsible for Carl's downfall. The creators have even talked (in some of the videos) about how it was the pressure of trying to be a "good Mormon man" that did Carl in. If it had not been Bill sodding his yard, it would have been someone cutting him off in traffic. Carl was a volcano waiting to explode.
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Post by nychic on Mar 21, 2011 23:58:17 GMT -5
withay is right; and that's what i tried to explain to another person in another thread. I don't understand why people are blaming Margie for what Carl did.
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Post by miceelf on Mar 22, 2011 0:22:37 GMT -5
Margie is impetuous, and she leads with her heart, not her head. She really did believe in Goji, she wasn't trying to scam Pam or the other ladies -- she really thought she was supporting good causes, and that all of the women would benefit and prosper in the company. Margene is a natural saleswoman, especially when she believes in her product -- whether is was Goji, her jewelry, or the casino.
Margie DID handle the whole issue with Pam and Carl totally wrong. She should have listened to Barb's counsel on that, not to interfere in their marriage. And arguing with Carl in front of Pam and all of the other women surely didn't help his confidence. But totally aside from the Goji, Pam and Carl had big problems that had absolutely nothing to do with the Henricksons. Carl saw himself as a total failure as a man, especially a Mormon man. He couldn't get his wife pregnant. Pam confided that their sex life was almost nothing, probably at least in part due to his depression. He couldn't find work -- another shame especially for an LDS man, when hard work and taking care of your family is so valued in their society. He couldn't tithe, and was being called to "worthiness" meetings, to determine if his temple recommend should be revoked -- another failure. It upset him so much that he came home in tears. He wrecked a couple of cars -- Pam suspected it might have been on purpose, indicating possible suicidal tendencies. Margie misread how serious all of these problems were between Pam and Carl, didn't even know how bad it truly was until Pam finally spilled her guts. Even though she handled things badly, Margie wasn't at fault or the cause of most of their problems.
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Post by bigluvjunkie on Mar 22, 2011 0:39:58 GMT -5
Bill, Barb and Nicki should have intervened sooner in the Gogi thing--true, Bill tried to talk to Marg about it but they didn't do anything until Carl literally begged Barb.
The family's obliviousness regarding Gogi was another example of how they neglected Margene.
But Pam is a grown woman, her own person. Margie is in no way responsible for anything Pam or Carl did. As noted above, she even tried to reimburse Pam out of her own money.
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Post by duets on Mar 22, 2011 0:45:21 GMT -5
I don't feel that Margene pushed Carl over the edge; but rather, Carl pushed Carl over the edge. You all have done a splendid job of listing the reasons why, so I'll just leave it @ that.
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Post by rissmeek on Mar 22, 2011 0:47:13 GMT -5
If it hadn't been Marge and Gogi, I think Pam would have been selling Pampered Chef or something similar. She was desperate to bring money in.
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Post by calimomof4 on Mar 22, 2011 1:28:59 GMT -5
Margie can't really be held responsible for not discerning the ramifications of disappointment, estrangement, dismissal, etc. These are emotions and experiences that middle-aged adults struggle with. Margie is a 22 year old at the time of Bill's death. She just finished adolescence.
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Post by BigLoveRocks! on Mar 22, 2011 2:10:26 GMT -5
Margene definitely did not help things... But it isn't her fault that Carl went cuckoo for cocoa puffs.
He was a walking time bomb... Bill just was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Carl was going to end up going postal on someone... Bill just happened to be there when he finally flipped out.
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Post by nychic on Mar 22, 2011 4:55:03 GMT -5
I think the general consensus is that It wasn't exactly Margie's fault. So, whoever thinks otherwise, i think, has a problem with Margie; whether it's subconscious or you are aware of it.
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Post by paleskinbeauty on Mar 22, 2011 11:10:37 GMT -5
I have to agree. Nicki had always been far more destructive within the entire relationship than Margene.
The thing about the re sodding of the lawn. Carl whined about it pre election, Bill did promise to take care of it. So you think someone from the company that did the work would have contacted Pam and or Carl prior to the work being done...so it should'nt have been a surprize.
Other than that, you guys have listed all the other things. Carl was a mess in and of himself.
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Post by DRagonfly on Mar 24, 2011 11:28:18 GMT -5
To think that ANYONE besides Carl is responsible for his actions is ridiculous. That was a choice, plain & simple. Most people's reaction to what he experienced is NOT to kill their neighbor. And I actually find it disturbing that people are so ready & willing to point the finger as if it's okay to make excuses for that sort of thing.
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ladykc
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by ladykc on May 4, 2011 6:38:14 GMT -5
Speaking of this storyline...I was wondering about it's accuracy. I had a friend in college who dated a Mormon guy. He was the oldest of five kids, and his father had essentially abandoned the family when he was small. The Mormon church provided A LOT of financial help to the family during his childhood. For all its faults, the Mormon church does look after its members in times of need. So, I was a bit skeptical that the church would revoke a temple recommend if an unemployed member couldn't tithe. My understanding is, they might even offer financial help to the family. Anyone else know anything about this?
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Post by withay on May 4, 2011 7:32:57 GMT -5
Speaking of this storyline...I was wondering about it's accuracy. I had a friend in college who dated a Mormon guy. He was the oldest of five kids, and his father had essentially abandoned the family when he was small. The Mormon church provided A LOT of financial help to the family during his childhood. For all its faults, the Mormon church does look after its members in times of need. So, I was a bit skeptical that the church would revoke a temple recommend if an unemployed member couldn't tithe. My understanding is, they might even offer financial help to the family. Anyone else know anything about this? I worked for Social Services before I retired and this has been my experience also. Now I never knew any of the LDS members personally and did not even know what a temple recommend was so I don't know how that would be affected. But I do know that the LDS church has programs in effect to help their own who have financial needs. I have written about this on another thread.
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